Feat analysis for Half-Celestial Rog 1/Monk 8

[Metallian]

Hello,

So I've reworked my Half-Celestial Rog 1/Monk 8 (which I posted about a while back, before getting totally distracted by an insane project at work). Someone suggested I think of him as a "flying Rogue with Clerical abilities and Monklike combat for flavor" and I think that'll work nicely. I plan to advance as a Rogue from now on, and maybe grab a prestige class or two (we'll see).

It is also the case (the campaign has already started, but I missed the first session due to the aforementioned insane project at work) that the party melee fighter has not maxed his Str, AB, or weapon enhancement bonus...so my +17/+15 unarmed attack sequence, AC 29, 82 HP will actually be quite competitive for melee purposes. Everyone else is a magic type or a ranged type.

Here are his stats (we had a generous point buy), including magic items:

Str 26
Dex 26
Con 18
Int 14
Wis 20
Cha 10 (I feel like a dork using Cha as the "dump stat" but I could't help it...besides, two other PCs have Chas in the mid twenties so it would be redundant)

Feats:

Dodge, Expertise, Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Flyby Attack, and...I can't decide on the last one.

Now, I know a lot of people thinking my character concept is fundamentally flawed, but I've decided I like it and I'm going to give it the old college try anyway. However, I can't decide on a last feat and I'd like some help. Here are some I've considered.

Blind-Fight: It's cool and Monklike. I have heard that some of the campaign villains are invisible critters. Since most of my AC is Dex-type AC, it's important that I not lose my Dex bonus to AC. I may want to take Blind-Sight 5' someday. It's nice because it always "works" (i.e., I always get that reroll against concealment). The bad part is that I'll get essentially half of this feat when I hit Rog 3 (Evasion - don't lose Dex bonus to AC), so it'll feel kind of redundant.

Improved Grapple (from Dragon magazine): The cool part is that my character has the highest Strength in the party, and runs around unarmed anyway, so grappling could be a neat maneuver. The bad part is that I figure most of the people I'm going to bother grappling will not be front-line fighter types (because I'll lose a lot of grapple checks)...i.e., I'll mostly be grappling mages and maybe rogues. Not the sort of people where I'm super-worried about the AoOs. So I don't know how useful it'll be...

Improved Sneak Attack (from Traps and Treachery): Boosts Sneak Attack die to d8. Really cool, but I feel that it may be a bit unbalanced and I don't want to be an ass. Also don't want to dump all my eggs in the "Sneak Attack Basket" because I'll be lame against undead/constructs/etc.

Quickstrike (From Traps and Treachery): On a succesful Sneak Attack, I get an extra attack at same bonus (but no sneak attack damage). Extra attacks are always good, but I have the same concerns about this one as I do about Improved Sneak Attack.

Circle Kick: Again, extra attacks are always cool, but it only works if I'm essentially surrounded. I don't think I want to get surrounded too often, do I?

Knock-Down: Cool, but the Fighter has it and I don't want to be boring (or outclasses at one of my "cool moves").

Sunder: Only in the interest of one day grabbing Eagle Claw Attack and Improved Sunder.

Chink in the Armor: Seems very martial-arts-ish. Will help me against big nasties.

Jack of All Trades: Help make up for my weaknes in skills due to all those Monk levels.

Power Attack: May not be too smart to take...but I love the idea of being able to beat the crap out of objects.


I know a lot of feats seem "cool" on paper but don't work in play. My normal game (the one I DM) doesn't have any Fighters, so I haven't seen a heck of a lot of combat feats used in practice. I want to avoid feats that seem cool but turn out to have limited utility or are impractical. Do any of those feats seem cool, but actually suck? Do any of them kick more ass than I gave them credit for? Any I missed that I should consider? Feat analysis would be helpful.

Thanks,

The Metallian

 

[Hypersmurf]

Circle Kick: Again, extra attacks are always cool, but it only works if I'm essentially surrounded. I don't think I want to get surrounded too often, do I?

Sunder: Only in the interest of one day grabbing Eagle Claw Attack and Improved Sunder.

Note: Circle Kick really, really, really, really sucks, and Eagle Claw Attack is in fact not worth the paper the feat is written on.

Knockdown is good, but doesn't it have Improved Trip as a prerequisite? Which, by the way, isn't a stupid idea for a feat for a Monk with 26 Strength either...

-Hyp.

 

[Metallian]

Re: Re: Feat analysis for Half-Celestial Rog 1/Monk 8

Note: Circle Kick really, really, really, really sucks, and Eagle Claw Attack is in fact not worth the paper the feat is written on.

-Hyp.

Good to know. These are the kinds of things I guess you learn from experience!

&lt crosses two feats off list &gt

The Metallian

 

[Hypersmurf]

Put it this way:

Eagle Claw Attack is a feat that allows you to break weapons or shields with an unarmed strike.

The Player's Handbook section on attacking objects also allows you to break weapons or shields with an unarmed strike.

One can see why it's not a wise choice of feat?

(However, it does have the advantage that instead of saying "I try to break his sword!", you get to say "I try to break his sword... with my Eagle Claw Attack!"...)

-Hyp.

 

[Victim]

Improved Flight would bump your manueverability to perfect. While not exactly the most useful ability, martial arts based around perfect flight would be really cool.

Jack of all Trades is pretty useless. Most trained only skills have pretty high DCs. If they don't, then rogues get so many skill points that you can probably afford to sink 1 point into skills you plan on using.

You might want to consider Combat Reflexes, then Expert Tactician. Expert Tactician gives you a free attack when you stun somone, or when you catch them by surprise. Since you plan on take rogue, it can also help you get more sneak attacks.

Can you rearrange your stats? It might be better to switch your Dex and Wis. Your AC will remain the same. Also, by multiclassing to rogue, your Reflex will increase anyway, so it might be better to bolster the rogue weak will save. It would also boost the DCs on your stunning attacks, letting you sneak attack more often. You lose out on Dex based skills though.

 

[Metallian]

Improved Flight would bump your manueverability to perfect. While not exactly the most useful ability, martial arts based around perfect flight would be really cool.

This is from Savage Species, I presume?

Jack of all Trades is pretty useless. Most trained only skills have pretty high DCs. If they don't, then rogues get so many skill points that you can probably afford to sink 1 point into skills you plan on using.

&lt crosses off list &gt

You might want to consider Combat Reflexes, then Expert Tactician. Expert Tactician gives you a free attack when you stun somone, or when you catch them by surprise. Since you plan on take rogue, it can also help you get more sneak attacks.

Hmmm...good thought. I'll definitely think about that.

Can you rearrange your stats? It might be better to switch your Dex and Wis. Your AC will remain the same. Also, by multiclassing to rogue, your Reflex will increase anyway, so it might be better to bolster the rogue weak will save. It would also boost the DCs on your stunning attacks, letting you sneak attack more often. You lose out on Dex based skills though.

!

Wow, that's a very interesting idea. I'll think about that, too.

It'd also boost my Spot and Listen, which is nice. My Hide/Move Silently/Tumble are already sickeningly high as it is. Then again, I could always get my gf's character (my charater's sister, a Transmuter) to cast Owl's Wisdom...

The Metallian

 

[Victim]

Improved Flight is from Masters of the Wild. There's also an Improved Fly by Attack feat that prevents AoO like Spring Attack. It's a non Epic feat in the ELH. Of course, tumble works too.

I'd imagine the transmuter can cast Cat's Grace too though. Having WIS bumped 24/7 and relying on temporary buffs for Dex seems better to me than the other way around.

 

[Metallian]

Improved Flight is from Masters of the Wild. There's also an Improved Fly by Attack feat that prevents AoO like Spring Attack. It's a non Epic feat in the ELH. Of course, tumble works too.

Yeah, I was planning to rely on my +19 tumble check for now. =)

I'd imagine the transmuter can cast Cat's Grace too though. Having WIS bumped 24/7 and relying on temporary buffs for Dex seems better to me than the other way around.

True, but the thing is I need to wear Gloves of Dex, which don't stack with Cat's Grace.

I'd wear a Periapt of Wisdom, but I don't have an item slot for it due to my Amulet of Mighty Fists. Then I have all of my Dex-based Rogues skills to worry about...

The Metallian

 

[Storminator]

What books are you using? If you have OA (hmmmm, might be Quint Monk), there is a feat in there that is simply breathtaking in its usefulness: Choose Your Poison. The monk decides, at the time of the attack, whether his stunning fist save is Fort or Will. Think about it... fighting a wizard? use Fort save. Fighting a fighter? use Will save. Verges on broken.

If you don't have it already, go drop some coin on Beyond Monks: the Art of the Fight (available at RPGNow.com). It has a fabulous selection of feats for monks. Personal favorite: Cobra Strike. When you threaten a crit you trade in a stunning fist for an increase in your crit multiplier. Others, also good, include Mongoose Strike (trade a stunning fist for bypassing DEX and Dodge AC bonuses for one attack).

There are also some excellent feat trees in the book I sooooo wish I had bought the book before I finished building my monk 13. He would have been so much cooler.

PS

 

[Metallian]

What books are you using? If you have OA (hmmmm, might be Quint Monk), there is a feat in there that is simply breathtaking in its usefulness: Choose Your Poison. The monk decides, at the time of the attack, whether his stunning fist save is Fort or Will. Think about it... fighting a wizard? use Fort save. Fighting a fighter? use Will save. Verges on broken.

If you don't have it already, go drop some coin on Beyond Monks: the Art of the Fight (available at RPGNow.com). It has a fabulous selection of feats for monks. Personal favorite: Cobra Strike. When you threaten a crit you trade in a stunning fist for an increase in your crit multiplier. Others, also good, include Mongoose Strike (trade a stunning fist for bypassing DEX and Dodge AC bonuses for one attack).

There are also some excellent feat trees in the book I sooooo wish I had bought the book before I finished building my monk 13. He would have been so much cooler.

PS

Woo! Those are cool.

Is that supplement considered by the general community to be balanced? You're right, some of them do seem awfully good...better than any of the official WotC feats I'm considering. I'm not looking to cheese of my DM, though....

The Metallian