Feat builds for rogues

[Joshua Randall]

Be sure to check out Complete Warrior for some handy feats. Snarky comments in [brackets] provided free of charge.

* Arterial Strike (BAB +4) - trade 1d6 sneak attack for 1 dmg/round
* Dash - speed +5 ft. in light/no armor [Is this any good? I've never taken it. Also, it would be weird to move half your speed when your speed is 35 ft.]
* Flick of the Wrist (Dex 17, 5 ranks Sleight/Hand, Quick Draw) - cause opponent to be flat-footed for one attack [Or you could just take Improved Feint?]
* Hamstring (BAB +4) - trade 2d6 sneak attack to cut opponent's speed in half [Frankly I'd rather just kill them faster.]

There is also the Elusive Target tactical feat, which you may as well take if you're going up the Dodge - Mobility - Spring Attack chain.

And just to be heretical, I would like to say that I consider some of the +2/+2 skill feats to be very well worth it for certain rogues. Stealthy and Negotiator in particular.

 

[Vymair]

I'll agree that Improved Initiative is near a must for any rogue. Close behind that for most rogues is Weapon Finesse. With my DMs, Iron Will shows up a lot for all characters and many rogues seem to have low wisdom scores in our group (not that I agree on that character design plan)...

Couple chains I like

Dodge, Mobility , Spring Attack, Elusive Target (from CW)

Expertise, Improved Feint

Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot (this one is on my short list as the master of daggers)...

If you plan to be in a lot of combat where you are gonna get hit, Shield Proficiency is a nice feat...The two rogues I play with both took a level of fighter for this feat as much as the bonus fighter feat...

 

[Kalendraf]

I advise against skill bonus feats such as stealthy. There are other feats that are superb, all of which have been mentioned by the previous posters. As long as you bump your hide and move silent skills each level, you should have no need for the extra boost you'd get from the stealthy feat. Instead, I'd recommend looking at skill-boost items which can be rather cheap. A pair of +2 skill items can be found for about 400 gp each which will mimic the effect of that feat. Granted, they'll eat up 2 item slots, and cost you some gold, but don't you think your feats are worth more than a measly 800 gp?

For a ranged attack rogue, I suggest Improved Init & Point Blank shot as the first to feats, followed up by precise shot then rapid shot. With a slow feat progression, this will consume your feats for the first several levels. Weapon Focus isn't all that useful, and you need to make absolutely sure you pick the right weapon when you do it. The success of a ranged attack rogue is highly dependent on party composition. If the party has several mobile fighters that are able to help you achieve flanking quickly or casters willing and able to always summon creatures for that purpose, then the ranged attacking rogue can be very powerful. In other groups, they may struggle to be as useful.

For a melee attack rogue, I suggest Improved Init, and then something unusual - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain). Note - if you're human you'll need to take something else with your bonus feat, since your BAB won't be high enough to qualify for the exotic weapon at 1st level. Dodge is probably the best option. Why do I like spiked chain? Three main reasons: A) As a reach weapon it often makes it easier to achieve flanking, B) reach often allows you to stay back out of harms way, and C) the extra reach sometimes lets you reach a flat-footed opponent you might not otherwise have been able to. After that, take Weapon Finesse which you can apply to the chain, and then Weapon Focus (spiked chain). The chain is a two-handed weapon, so you also get a 1.5 x damage bonus on the extra damage from high strength. The rogue in my campaign has this build and it works really well. You can achieve some of these feats faster with some levels of fighter for extra feats and BAB, but it's not necessary.

 

[ForceUser]

would like some advice on essential feats for rogues to take at early, and later levels.

Is it worth it for Rogues to burn a feat on something like weapon focus?

In particular, I'm builidnig a character who will be using his shortbow for sneak attacks, so I figure Point Blank is a no-brainer.

To build the stealth side, how useful are feats like dodge, stealthy, etc. Is it worth it to burn a feat on something like Stealthy when I"m putting make ranks in Hide and Move Silently anyway?

In a campaign heavy on espionage & intrigue, I highly recommend Improved Unarmed Strike for rogues, or taking one level of monk. There's nothing like the +10d6 sneak attack unarmed strike. Even if it's just subdual damage, that's an awesome thing for a guy sneaking around a castle or attending the state dinner of an enemy king. When the guards frisk you they'll find no weapons.

 

[Saeviomagy]

For a melee attack rogue, I suggest Improved Init, and then something unusual - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain). Note - if you're human you'll need to take something else with your bonus feat, since your BAB won't be high enough to qualify for the exotic weapon at 1st level. Dodge is probably the best option.

If you're doing this, then the best option is probably combat reflexes, not dodge.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

would like some advice on essential feats for rogues to take at early, and later levels.

Is it worth it for Rogues to burn a feat on something like weapon focus?

In particular, I'm builidnig a character who will be using his shortbow for sneak attacks, so I figure Point Blank is a no-brainer.

To build the stealth side, how useful are feats like dodge, stealthy, etc. Is it worth it to burn a feat on something like Stealthy when I"m putting make ranks in Hide and Move Silently anyway?

My only real experience with a rogue is from level 6 to 12. Here's what I found.

1) Rogues suck.

2) If you ignore #1 above, then I suggest you take Iron Will and Great Fortitude, buy a +5 resistance item, maybe finnagle Strong Soul (PGtF) out of your DM, and have a buddy pocket cleric casting Spell Resistance, two Magic Vestments, and a bunch of other neat buffs, while you flee from everything with blindsight, blindsense, scent, the ability to cast spells, the ability to fight effectively, etc.

3) Or you could just play a cleric.




(Okay, maybe I'm bitter.)

 

[Darklone]

Clerics suck.

Honestly though, the rogue is hands down the best class for multiclassing

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Clerics suck.

I must be a moron, because I think Clerics are the most non-suckiest class out there. Maybe our definitions of "suck" do not coincide.

Honestly though, the rogue is hands down the best class for multiclassing

Sorry, I can't stand low fortitude and will saves. The lowered hps and bab generally suck too. All that for a few extra skill points (bleh) and sneak attack (double bleh).
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Not to step on anyone's toes, of course. Because rogues have style.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, rogues are great for multiclassing. I don't think single class rogues are that good, tho, since they have some fundamental problems.

Barbarians, rangers and fighters are equally well-suited for multiclassing, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[johnsemlak]

Yeah, rogues are great for multiclassing. I don't think single class rogues are that good, tho, since they have some fundamental problems.

What would you say those are?