Feats and feat chains- Every level? (oh my!)

[Belen]

I have been playing around with the idea of adding extra feats to the game. IMO, the advancement in feats seems too slow for anyone other than the fighter. However, I am somewhat worried about making the game too overpowered. I know some people can really use those extra feats to make some disgusting combos.

So I am hovering on the edge of giving a feat at every odd level in addition to the normal feats that each class/character receives and/or yanking the heroic paths from the Mindnight CS and having characters choose one at first level (or maybe even both!).

What do you all think? I'd enjoy your take on things.

 

[rowport]

That sounds like a really fun idea to me, as a character-options junkie.

It might be really tough to adjust encounter levels, though- after a few levels it would be *wildly* more powerful than standard D&D. You might want to look at Sean K. Reynolds site for some ideas on point-value feats to get a sense of how much extra power is right for the opposition.

 

[Crothian]

It also matters what sources you allow feats from. Not all feats are equal so it could be problematic. It also depends on the players, do you feel they will abuse the system or not?

See I'd love to give more feats if only to be able to allow players to take the lesser feats they think fit their character but don't feel are worth the cost. I haven't figured out how to do that though.

 

[Belen]

That sounds like a really fun idea to me, as a character-options junkie.

It might be really tough to adjust encounter levels, though- after a few levels it would be *wildly* more powerful than standard D&D. You might want to look at Sean K. Reynolds site for some ideas on point-value feats to get a sense of how much extra power is right for the opposition.

I scapped the CR/EL system a while ago. It just does not work for my games. It is a great concept as a guide for new GMs, but does not hold up in non-RPGA games.

 

[MonsterMash]

For me that would be a bit too frequent I think, but I'd certainly think of adding a bonus feat to all classes at a couple of levels to keep things interesting. Maybe 4th and 8th in addition to any bonus feats already recieved by the classes at those levels.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I think the only way I would do this in a more-or-less stock D&D game is to divide the feats into greater and lesser. Greater feats would be those that most everyone is going to take - Improved Initiative, the save boosting feats, Power attack. Lesser feats would be the oddball, the low-powered, the flavor feats - the +2/+2s, Eschew Materials, Endurance, etc. At 2,6,10,14,18, you could pick a Lesser Feat, at 4,8,12,16,20 you could pick a Greater or Lesser. This in addition to class and race specific options, of course.

You'd still get the same 5 "whatever I want" feats a normal character would get get, just a little later. And you'd keep the power level down a little bit, anyway.

 

[Belen]

It also matters what sources you allow feats from. Not all feats are equal so it could be problematic. It also depends on the players, do you feel they will abuse the system or not?

See I'd love to give more feats if only to be able to allow players to take the lesser feats they think fit their character but don't feel are worth the cost. I haven't figured out how to do that though.

Well, my current crew would be great with it. They are not the powergaming type.

As for the second question, I have thought about creating a list of feats that people choose from for the bonus feats such as skill focus etc. I would probably distill the feats from the PHB, campaign setting used, complete books, race books, and environment books. Not all of them would make the cut, but I am sure a decent choice would exist. That would be the easiest solution.

Otherwise, I would say that bonus feats must be selected from the PHB only if I wanted to cut the list down further.

 

[Belen]

For me that would be a bit too frequent I think, but I'd certainly think of adding a bonus feat to all classes at a couple of levels to keep things interesting. Maybe 4th and 8th in addition to any bonus feats already recieved by the classes at those levels.

Well, I have noticed in my game that few people choose fighters, so I have rarely seen a completed feat chain. I am not sure things would be too frequent.

I can also see the point with Rodrigo's lesser/greater feat structure. I think we are on the same page with that model, since I would most likely create a bonus feat list that people needed to use in order to select their bonus feats.

 

[Psion]

The Advanced GM Guide by Green Ronin discusses doing this, and some of the potential pratfalls.

Two options he lists is either directly cranking up the feat rate like you do, or combining the feat and attribute point progression into one and then smooting it out to 2/3 levels.

One thing you need to watch out for is gaining feats or prestige classes that would have formerly been reserved for high levels. If the only thing keeping a character from getting a powerful feat or PrC at early levels is a chain of feats, you might want to tack on a more level dependant requirement (like skill rank, base save, base attack, or actual level.)

 

[Belen]

One thing you need to watch out for is gaining feats or prestige classes that would have formerly been reserved for high levels. If the only thing keeping a character from getting a powerful feat or PrC at early levels is a chain of feats, you might want to tack on a more level dependant requirement (like skill rank, base save, base attack, or actual level.)

I cannot wait for that book to be printed.

I usually assign BaB minimums to PrCs in addition to roleplaying requirements. The end result is the earliest people can get a PrC in my game is usually 8th level.