Feats and How to Ruin Them

[El Mahdi]

I think a lot of people have misconceptions they've gained from other peoples posts and opinions, rather than reading directly what Monte and Company have been saying and sticking to that only.

Monte and Company have been saying that Feats will be a part of the game, but there will be character builds that won't need to use them (for a more simpler or earlier edition feel). There will also be builds that use Feats more like 3E did, or 4E did. In other words, Feats will add varying levels of complexity and granularity for different types of character builds.

More than likely that means the simple core system will be one where Feat like abilities are already hard-coded into the class, but more complex builds (ala 3E and 4E) can swap those hardcoded abilities out for Feat choices. They've also said that as the simpler builds progress in level, they will likely be able to swap out abilities for new higher level abilities, but won't necessarily have to swap them out.

I think that will likely eliminate things like Feat taxes and such, as the core system will need to be balanced entirely without them.

I think a thorough reading of what Monte and Company, and only Monte and Company, have said will alleviate many fears people have about the upcoming system. And try reading their releases without reading into them. I think people will be much less stressed if they do so...

 

[Aeolius]

I cannot help but hear this, in the back of my noggin...
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in1eK3x1PBI]fats waller - your feet's too big - YouTube[/ame]

 

[KidSnide]

I think feats should kill Utility and At-Will attack powers and take their stuff. If I'm going to be bothered with tracking a character generation resource, I want it to be important enough to affect play.

-KS

 

[SteveC]

I'd say that feats should be for customization, and certainly not be required to make a character function in their core role.

If a wizard has to spend feats to cast spells outside of a very narrow range of daily powers, that's essentially making them pay a tax to be a wizard, and the last thing I'd like to see.

If a fighter has to spend a feat to do anything other than make a basic attack, I'd say again that's ridiculous.

Both of those cases are such a step back from where we are now that it would really be inexcusable. The playtest can't get here soon enough!

 

[B.T.]

I understand what you don't want feats to do, but I don't understand what you do want them to do. Give me an example of what a good feat is for you.

 

[RHGreen]

I think feats should be sub-siloed. I have no problem with +mod feats if they are siloed into their own catagory where everybody gets one. That way nobody would be without one and it would not be a tax.

For example if everybody gets a +1 specialization feat to a weapon or implement.

 

[BobTheNob]

I know I'm totally alone in this...but I don't want feats (burn the heretic).

Short of this, i wouldn't mind feat being something a little different. I would like feats being allocated less frequently(around every 5 levels ?) and being broader capacity. Along the lines of "two handed weapon focus" which gives a + to hit, an innate ability to push and a limited use power (along those lines).

...now I prepare for the mob with pitchforks

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I don't get what the opening poster wants at all. Feats were put into the game to give characters more flexibility in design, yet he doesn't like the idea that you might have to choose feats to meet a character design?

Some things I get, like the idea that feats shouldn't be usable to make you directly better at your class's primary abilities, at least as far a numerical bonuses are concerned.

Myself, I have the opposite opinion. Everything should be a feat. All class features are feats. All racial abilities are feats. And all feats are attached to some form of thematic grouping.

Your race, class, and theme automatically grant you certain feats. You also gain feats you can select from any feat group you have access to.

It unifies the language and creates a standard power progression that applies to everything.

 

[mkill]

Myself, I have the opposite opinion. Everything should be a feat. All class features are feats. All racial abilities are feats. And all feats are attached to some form of thematic grouping.

There is a huge problem with this, and that's analysis paralysis. If you have just the PHB, it's still ok, but if every little character customization ever is dumped into the feat system, you end up with thousands of feats spread around dozens of splatbooks and dragon articles and you never know what ended up where. Making a character becomes an exercise in sifting through piles of material, 90% of which doesn't make any sense for your character at all. You practically have to consult a build guide just because you don't want to spend a whole day discarding crap.

What I don't want to see in the feat system:

Dozens of feats when one is enough: Until the end, 4E never managed to have just one epic feat that allows you to score a critical on natural 19. I don't know how many of them they ended up with, but it's ridiculous. Like when they had one for swords, but then the requirements were bogus so that Swordmages couldn't take them, so they had to make a new feat with the same effect but different requirements.

Feats that are required for a class to function: Intelligent Blademaster etc. 4Es power system is all nice and dandy, but someone didn't see that charge, opportunity attacks etc. still use melee basic attacks, which are always based on Strength. Which creates a big issue for non-Str classes.
4E's solution? Make it a feat! Great, thank you for wasting my first-level feat slot.

As for multiclassing, I wouldn't have minded so much if it was one feat. But instead, you have to take a feat for every single fricking power. Nuts!

 

[Stormonu]

What I'm looking for in feats in 5E is that's it an optional system - the game works without them.

That would mean that feats wouldn't be providing needed mechanical bonus - Weapon Focus, Skill Focus, ect. (I'd still like to see them as ways to bump up abilities, but they wouldn't be required - they'd really be "bonuses").

What they would do is open up new ways of doing things, or perhaps a way of intrinsically doing something better. Improved Grapple is one such idea - when you make a grab at an opponent, they don't get a free attack. Whirlwind attack would be another - it lets the fighter attack everyone around him, instead of just one person. Those sort of things.