Feats as Treasure?

[Deathmonger]

The DMG specifically states that DM's have the option to require their PCs to train before achieving levels, which includes gaining feats and skills.

I wasn't questioning whether it was permitted in the rules, I was questioning whether it would lead anyone at the table to enjoy the game more.

Wheras I like the idea of having a trainer for speciallized feats, I feel that skills and more mundane feats (like toughness) can be learned and enhanced over a course of the adventure. That said, I think the author, and Todd believe that the real reason why they need a change is because of how unbelievaable it is that when a character levels he automatically gains these new abilities.

My solution for this is to use the Buy the Numbers system and have it replace leveling in my two year campaign. That way, characters use XP to buy feats and skills over time which makes the progression look a bit more natural than "hey i leveled i get all new abilities". This system combined with trainers whom specialize in the more "class oriented feats" can make a campaign more realistic without the additional rpg interaction.

Your solution sounds reasonable to me, if in fact people are having less fun because of the "unbelievability" of 'chunky' advancement at every level. I am still of the opinion that a responsible DM will at least poll the group to see whether any of the players think it will actually be more interesting to spend a good piece of their playing time talking about the "training time" inbetween adventures. Yes, some of that can be done over email or whatever, but eventually it will invade time that could be spent adventuring. You need to figure out whether the increased "realism" of gradient advances is _better_ than having whatever time you spend on that be spent on actual gameplay. Even if you don't end up sacrificing game-time, you will spend time on it out-of-session, and you need to evaluate whether its going to be a better game if you spend your time as DM on that or on some other aspect of developing the game. See where I'm going with this?

I'm backing off a bit, here. I'm no longer strictly criticizing this approach. I am sure, however, that my own game is better served by overlooking your percieved realism problem in favor of having more time to spend on the parts that are more fun for me and my players. If your players get a kick out of gradient advancement, great! But I would want to know that for absolutely sure before I started writing down who can get what feats and skills where and how many weeks a character will have to spend there.

 

[Corbert]

So the only way for them to get these feats is therough the book? They couldn't just take it on their own like by buying the book or borrowing it themselves?

Sure they can, but I use this to bring feats that might fit the setting or help their characters better than what they have planned to their attention in game instead of saying "Hey, check out this feat on page 54" . Also, anyone in the group can use it (unless its class specific), and then they can sell the book.

 

[ToddSchumacher]

Sorry this is thread drift at this point, but um, how exactly is that going to make everybody at the table have more fun? By introducing a headache of bookkeeping for the DM and a convoluted system that penalizes players for coming to your game instead of another?

Maybe, just maybe, your storytelling abilities are so good that they will feel like those interactions are fun and interesting, but if so, you can bring that flavor into your game without requiring them to go to a Listening Teacher every time they want to spend a skill point. Done occasionally, and in moderation, this can be rewarding. But honestly, for every skill and feat? I doubt it will be more fun for anyone.

If you re-read my post i say that for every NEW skill or feat they want they must see a trainer. So if you already have listen, you can go right ahead and put points into it without a trainer. And, yes, this may complicate things, but really if players can spend an hour and a half leveling characters, selling loot and buying stuff, they can take a few moments to say, I spend 100gp and two weeks getting cleave from Biff the merchant guard.

I at least want to try it, and if it doesn't work, i can just as easily drop it.

 

[DonTadow]

If you re-read my post i say that for every NEW skill or feat they want they must see a trainer. So if you already have listen, you can go right ahead and put points into it without a trainer. And, yes, this may complicate things, but really if players can spend an hour and a half leveling characters, selling loot and buying stuff, they can take a few moments to say, I spend 100gp and two weeks getting cleave from Biff the merchant guard.

I at least want to try it, and if it doesn't work, i can just as easily drop it.

The problem I have with training every new skill and feat is two fold

A. I'm not sure how many people are in your game, but if you play out each day, as I do, two weeks can really slow down the game especially if there are evils astirring.
B. Again, I see the point is realism, and I"m all for it, but isn't it just as realistic that a pc could pick up the skill over time as he's adventuring. For instance, say I don't have listen, someone can't possibly teach me listen (if i'm picking it as a new skill). But listening just like a lot of the other skill is something that you pick up slowly over time. Even some feats, such as cleave, is something that can be picked up over time. A person improving their reaction time to push for an extra swing.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I have a magical university, and although it is long in ruins it still tries to teach, by writting information on its walls, the information changes according to the desires of the person reading it. There are five seperate buildings and studing each one gives a + 1 to a specific knowledge check. While you are tring to study waves of undead attack.
the Academy can grant effectively +5 no more than 3 to any skill, and only to knowledges -

Although last time the PCs were there they managed to get rid of most of the undead, even the ghosts. And one way or another it won't be working next time they go back.

Its always nice to have a few extra ranks in knowledges.