Feats - discussion

[Northman]

Sudden Empower [Metamagic]
You can cast one spell per day to greater effect without special preparation.
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: Once per day, you may apply the Empower Spell feat to any spell you cast, without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time. You may still use the Empower Spell feat normally, if you have it.

The others are the same except the following:

Sudden Energy Affinity
Prerequisite: Energy Affinity

Sudden Enlarge
No prerequisite

Sudden Extend
No prerequisite

Sudden Maximize

Sudden Quicken
Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Sudden Empower, Sudden Extend, Sudden Maximize, Sudden Silent, Sudden Still

Sudden Silent
no prerequisite

Sudden Still
No prerequisite

Sudden Widen
no prerequisite

 

[Northman]

Extra Domain Spell [General]
You have chosen to be more specialized in a particular domain
Prerequisite: Wis 15, access to one domain spell
Benefit: Choose one domain spell that you can cast. You may cast this spell one extra time each day. Once this spell is chosen, it may not be changed.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you choose this feat, you select a different domain spell to which it applies.

 

[Silverglass]

I don't see a problem with these in general terms as its a single spell per day but I do think that the pre-requisite should be the metamagic that the "sudden" is coming from. So Sudden Empower Spell would need the pre-requisite of Empower Spell.

I would not in fact object if you suggested a general feat that gave a Sudden Metamagic, so a once per day use of a metamagiced spell, up to a certain level which I suggest should be 5th, the caster posseses (other than Heighten) without extra cost.

Also your description talks about preparation, so does not give a pointer to whether it would increase the cast time for spontaneous casters.

 

[Memnus]

I agree that the metamagic feat in question should be a prerequisite. Also, the level limit on the spell should be the highest-level spell that the caster could ordinarily prepare with that feet. For example, an 8th-level caster could cast a Sudden Still Fireball, or Sudden Maximized Magic Missile.

 

[Northman]

We could shift the prereqs that have "any" metamagic to a specific one, but for something so minor, I wonder why we would want to mess with it since it's a published WotC feat. If it was homemade, I definitely would see the value in tweaking every facet needed.

Is there anything about them that seems out of whack? How about the Extra Domain Spell?

 

[Lith]

I have to agree with Memnus and Silverglass that the pre-req should be the Metamagic feat in question.

And I would add that you can't combine any two sudden powers. or use more than one Sudden power per day since I don't see that anywhere.

A Sudden Maximized, Sudden Enlarged Fireball, could really put a cramp in a DMs style should some PCs be facing a horde of kobolds.

Also As Memnus said the level limit on the spell should be the highest-level spell that the caster could ordinarily prepare with that feet. Epic levels might open things up more but I'm not all that read up on how epic magic works..

 

[Northman]

Again, for something so minor, I'm not sure why we would want to rewrite every one of these feats. Also, as I'm thinking about it, if you needed a specific metamagic feat for each, then you'd never have more than one. You'd need silence to get sudden silence, you'd need enlarge to get sudden enlarge. That's four feats. Feats to arcane spell casters are precious. To get four you'd have to be 9th level unless you were a human. That's probably why WotC didn't make them specific prereqs for most of them.

You can only use any sudden feat once a day, but you can use other sudden feats if you have them. Remember these are not spells, these are feats, and characters only get a few of them over the span of a lot of levels.

As for the level limits, I'm still confused as to what is trying to be said. Maybe it's so simple I'm missing it. Oh wait, do you mean how the original enlarge takes up a slot one level higher, so with sudden enlarge you'd only be able to affect a spell one level lower than your highest? If so, that seems to make it a bit bulky. And I'm not sure it needs the restriction. Is that what you mean?

 

[Memnus]

Look at it this way. If no prerequisites are added, a caster takes a metamagic feat at first level, then Sudden Maximize at third level. Now he can theoretically only cast second level spells, but maximize is +3 levels, so he's happily casting one fourth or fifth level spell every day. When he reaches third level spells, he can already cast Maximized Fireballs - which are an equivalkent of a whopping sixth level spell. That's a lot of power to throw at low levels.

 

[Northman]

Okay, I understand what you're saying. But that's exactly why those metamagic feats like Maximize are next to useless. Being able to cast a maximized magic missile spell once a day is similar to being able to use a smite evil attack once a day. Yeah, it's more powerful, but it's once a day and it takes a feat to do it, which has a prereq of another feat.

I think what we're talking about here is an issue of game balance which is difficult to really get a grasp on without actually play testing it. I think play testing has shown that most metamagic feats are nearly useless, or at the least not desireable enough for a wizard to actually take. Thus, underpowered.

These feats may be overpowered. They may give too much for what they take. At this point I don't think so, though I won't rule out the possibility. I really need to see them in action a little more.

 

[Emiricol]

I have to admit - in all the casters I've played over the years, I do not believe I have ever used a metamagic feat or taken a metamagic feat over some other feat.