Feats & Fighters

[MrMyth]

Where is the Fighter picking up the Wizard's free rituals from?

One of the feats that lets you multiclass into Wizard gives you their full Ritual Casting feature (including learning new rituals as you level up). A Hybrid Wizard does not get access to this feature (even via Hybrid Talent), and since they are already a wizard, cannot take the multiclassing feat.

They can take Ritual Caster normally, but that does not grant the free learning of rituals as they level. Hence, the fighter who multiclasses into wizard with one feat is better at rituals than the hybrid wizard/whatever.

 

[mneme]

Learned Spellcaster [Multiclass Wizard]

Prerequisite: Int 13, Wis 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Arcana skill, the Nature skill, or the Religion skill. You gain the wizard’s Ritual Casting class feature. In addition, you can wield wizard implements.

 

[twilsemail]

One of the feats that lets you multiclass into Wizard gives you their full Ritual Casting feature (including learning new rituals as you level up). A Hybrid Wizard does not get access to this feature (even via Hybrid Talent), and since they are already a wizard, cannot take the multiclassing feat.

They can take Ritual Caster normally, but that does not grant the free learning of rituals as they level. Hence, the fighter who multiclasses into wizard with one feat is better at rituals than the hybrid wizard/whatever.

The Ritual Caster feature of the "Arcanist" only grants you the feat. The Spellbook feature grants you free rituals. I'd've taken Learned Spellcaster far sooner on an old Bard PC if it granted some free rituals.

 

[MrMyth]

The Ritual Caster feature of the "Arcanist" only grants you the feat. The Spellbook feature grants you free rituals. I'd've taken Learned Spellcaster far sooner on an old Bard PC if it granted some free rituals.

Hmm, that does seem to be technically true. My group has always considered the free rituals part of the wizard's class feature, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if other groups run it the same way.

 

[twilsemail]

Hmm, that does seem to be technically true. My group has always considered the free rituals part of the wizard's class feature, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if other groups run it the same way.

I got called on it recently, which is the only reason I was able to pull that out of my hat. I had a very strong, "Wait... You're kidding, right?" response.

 

[mneme]

Wow. That's...really terrible, actually. Hopefully, they'll fix it when they update the wizard.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No, the Weaponmaster can spend one feat to swap one encounter power for Power Strike. An even trade.

He can also spend one additional feat to gain the benefits of Weapon Specialization, which aren't trivial.

The benefit of Weapon Specialization aplies on a use of Power Strike. So, it's really just an upgrade of power strike to something vaguely level-apropriate.

So, yeah, two feats for a Fighter to get a Power Strike of modest level-equivalence, one feat for a Knight or Slayer to get a Fighter encounter power of up to their level. Similarly, one feat for a Theif to get any Rogue encounter up to his level, two feats (the swap feat & melee training) for the Rogue to get Backstab and use it not-quite-as-well-as the Theif.

If only 'feat arbitrage' were possible.

It's even worse, actually. A Fighter or Rogue power works just as well for a Knight/Slayer or Theif as it does for a Fighter or Rogue. But, a use of Power Strike or Backstab by a Fighter or Rogue is innately inferior to the use of the same by a Knight/Slayer or Theif, because there is no stance or trick to enhance it. So not only do the 4e classes pay double the feat tax, they get less benefit for it.

 

[Aegeri]

One thing that's not a nerf, but still notable, is that Combat Challenge is still an immediate interrupt, limiting the fighter's mark-punishment to once/round. The Knight's aura-punishment is 1/turn.

The Knight however is immensely vulnerable to a simple 1 square push, utterly negating any worth he has as a defender. The Knights immense deficiencies as a defender negate a lot of the power of their 1/turn mark punishment. Not to mention enemies never provoke it: They just walk away.

 

[Klaus]

The benefit of Weapon Specialization aplies on a use of Power Strike. So, it's really just an upgrade of power strike to something vaguely level-apropriate.

So, yeah, two feats for a Fighter to get a Power Strike of modest level-equivalence, one feat for a Knight or Slayer to get a Fighter encounter power of up to their level. Similarly, one feat for a Theif to get any Rogue encounter up to his level, two feats (the swap feat & melee training) for the Rogue to get Backstab and use it not-quite-as-well-as the Theif.

If only 'feat arbitrage' were possible.

It's even worse, actually. A Fighter or Rogue power works just as well for a Knight/Slayer or Theif as it does for a Fighter or Rogue. But, a use of Power Strike or Backstab by a Fighter or Rogue is innately inferior to the use of the same by a Knight/Slayer or Theif, because there is no stance or trick to enhance it. So not only do the 4e classes pay double the feat tax, they get less benefit for it.

But Power Strike isn't an encounter power by itself. You can use Power Strike to boost the damage and add the Specialization rider on not only at-wills (which is all the Knight and Slayer can usually do), but also on Encounter and Daily powers.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But Power Strike isn't an encounter power by itself. You can use Power Strike to boost the damage and add the Specialization rider on not only at-wills (which is all the Knight and Slayer can usually do), but also on Encounter and Daily powers.

Nope, only basic attacks.

It's the equivalent of a pretty desireable Encounter power - the equivalent of reliable, good damage, WS rider, useable as a charge or OA - but it doesn't do a thing for Fighter at-will, encounter, or daily attacks.