Feats that Raise Ability Scores

[Firzair]

Hi everybody,
IMC I have a feat "Raise Ability" that lets you raise an ability score just like every 4th character level lets you do it. Could be taken more than once for the same attribute. No balance problems so far (noone has taken it more than once so far, we're at level 12 now with regular feats for every odd character level).
It's mostly useful for the one time boost from an odd attribute value to the next bonus step. I don't think that's unbalanced.

Greetings
Firzair

 

[green slime]

Originally posted by IndyPendant
Skillfulness [General]
You are more skillful than normal.
Benefit: You gain 4 additional skill points at 1st level, and 1 additional skill point per level thereafter. These extra skill points are retroactive.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.

Well, I'd only allow this feat to be taken at first level, and only once.

]Originally posted by IndyPendant
Toughness [Fighter]
You are tougher than normal.
Benefit: You gain 1 additional hitpoint per level. These additional hitpoints are retroactive.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times.
Note: This feat replaces the Toughness feat found in the PHB.

In my campaign we altered toughness similarly, EXCEPT that we have placed a maximum of 20 hp gained, made it a prerequisite for Epic Toughness, AND allow it only to be taken once.

Originally posted by IndyPendant

Magic Talent [Metamagic]
You have developed a natural talent for magic.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to one spellcasting-related attribute (i.e., Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma)—but only for the purposes of bonus spells per level and DC checks for your spells. This feat will not modify your skill points, saves, skill checks, or any other aspect of those attributes.

And even here, this is Spellcasting Prodigy, without the 1st level only requirement, which we enforce. My opinion is that it is good to require this feat to be taken at 1st level, when the choices are tough.

 

[green slime]

Originally posted by Firzair
Hi everybody,
IMC I have a feat "Raise Ability" that lets you raise an ability score just like every 4th character level lets you do it. Could be taken more than once for the same attribute. No balance problems so far (noone has taken it more than once so far, we're at level 12 now with regular feats for every odd character level).
It's mostly useful for the one time boost from an odd attribute value to the next bonus step. I don't think that's unbalanced.

Greetings
Firzair

Hello Firzair...

Interesting. This is probably because there are lots of good feats out there. Let me see, you let every character take a feat every other level instead of every third, and have yet to see anyone take it more than once? Hmmm... Do you have many fighters?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Well, according to Four Color to Fantasy, a +2 bonus to any physical ability score is worth a feat and a half, while a +2 bonus to any mental ability score is worth a feat.

Other than moving Constitution into the less expensive column, I'd say it's just about right.

Increasing an ability score by +1 is just as problematic as odd-numbered racial adjustments, though it appears to be the preferred method of advancing your ability scores. The +5 limit to inherent bonuses from Wish also supports this.

 

[Firzair]

[/color]

Hello Firzair...

Interesting. This is probably because there are lots of good feats out there. Let me see, you let every character take a feat every other level instead of every third, and have yet to see anyone take it more than once? Hmmm... Do you have many fighters?

Hello Green Slime,
you've got it right, I changed the feat progression IMC. There are just two fighters, one monk, one cleric, one wizard and a rogue. I also changed the feat progression for monsters and NPCs so that they are all the same! It's a high powered campaign but balanced very well.
I also changed the magic system, wizards cast like sorcerers but are able to change their "memorized=known" spells every day by perparation, clerics cast spontanously every spell on their list and sorcerers can cast all day long with caster level checks against a DC set by the spell level with drawbacks for failed checks (there's some auto-failure for low rolls depending on spell level) and they can learn every spell on the wiz/sor list and every spell from the cleric or druid list one level higher.
It's quite some fun !

Greetings
Firzair

 

[green slime]

Hello Green Slime,
you've got it right, I changed the feat progression IMC. There are just two fighters, one monk, one cleric, one wizard and a rogue. I also changed the feat progression for monsters and NPCs so that they are all the same! It's a high powered campaign but balanced very well.
I also changed the magic system, wizards cast like sorcerers but are able to change their "memorized=known" spells every day by perparation, clerics cast spontanously every spell on their list and sorcerers can cast all day long with caster level checks against a DC set by the spell level with drawbacks for failed checks (there's some auto-failure for low rolls depending on spell level) and they can learn every spell on the wiz/sor list and every spell from the cleric or druid list one level higher.
It's quite some fun !

Greetings
Firzair

Hi Firzair!

While I'll agree with you, that your campaign sounds like great fun, such a high powered campaign, it does sort of change the context in which your feat suggestions can be described as not causing an issue... But it works in your game, obviously.

IS there a document or online site that describes your house rules anywhere? I'd be interested in looking them over...

 

[TwoSix]

Retroactive? Ugh. No form of permanent Intelligence boost does that, which is what you are looking to partly duplicate here. Plus I am not a fan of the concept of feats, or anything else, working retroactively. I would rather see the players have to make real decisions; take feats at 1st level that pay off in the long term, or go for immediate survivability? But if you make feats that are retroactive, then there's no trade-off. What I do like is the concept of trading feats for skill points, which is why I created my own Skilled feat along similar lines (minus the retroactivity) and am keenly interested in hearing what others have to say about this one.

I've never agreed with the retroactivity argument. I think EVERYTHING you take should be retroactive, even Intelligence boosts. The penalty for taking a feat later rather than earlier is a pretty simple one: You don't have the feat until you take it. If you take a feat to gain skill points retroactively at 9th level instead of 1st level, the penalty you pay is you didn't have the extra skill points at levels 1-8.

I'm a firm believer that all characters built should be easily deconstructed by level, so that it doesn't matter what order you took the levels in. A character who took 5 levels of rogue, then 5 levels of fighter should look identical to a character who takes 5 levels of fighter, then 5 levels of rogue. The rules don't support this as much as I would like, but hey, that's what house rules are for, right?

 

[Hashmalum]

I've never agreed with the retroactivity argument. I think EVERYTHING you take should be retroactive, even Intelligence boosts.

This isn't very realistic. Suppose that someone is of normal intelligence for most of their life, then suddenly is somehow boosted to genius IQ. Do you really think that the previously-normal person, who might have had to go over material three or four times that a natural genius would understand the first time, would really know everything that the natural genius would? No. He already wasted that extra time on redundant studies, and he's never, ever going to get it back. The natural genius had that extra time to study new things. He will never, ever catch up to the natural genius unless the latter slacks off.

The penalty for taking a feat later rather than earlier is a pretty simple one: You don't have the feat until you take it.

But you have some other feat instead, one that has done you more immediate good.

I'm a firm believer that all characters built should be easily deconstructed by level, so that it doesn't matter what order you took the levels in.

That would be nice from a game mechanical point of view, but...

A character who took 5 levels of rogue, then 5 levels of fighter should look identical to a character who takes 5 levels of fighter, then 5 levels of rogue. The rules don't support this as much as I would like, but hey, that's what house rules are for, right?

You're fighting an uphill battle here. The max HP and quadruple skill points at first level rules are against you--just to start with. The amount of time and trouble it would take to create the new rules you want, to say nothing of the effort the players must invest in learning them, just doesn't seem in any way worth the minute gain in transparency that you achieve.

 

[Nifft]

In terms of Feats, I'd say Sculpt Self is the closest to what you're looking for. Then, of course, you have to pay (XP, etc.) for the actual ability increase.

-- Nifft

 

[TwoSix]

Curse you, double post!