Feats to make Dragon Shaman Better

[Darklone]

The trouble is, you need to be a Draconic creature to use it, which means either playing a draconic race such as a kobold (which, as it happened, I was) or spending your 1st-level feat on becoming draconic.

Dragonfire adepts get Dragontouched at first level as bonus feat, does this work as prerequisite?

 

[saucercrab]

Dragonfire adepts get Dragontouched at first level as bonus feat, does this work as prerequisite?

I believe so.

 

[blargney the second]

I just found a couple of cool dragon shaman feats in the Dragonmarked book (Eberron). Breath of Siberys increases your breath weapon by one die, and Improved Draconic Aura lets you spend action points to increase your aura bonus. Both have the prerequisite of a true dragonmark.

 

[Rvdvelden]

dragon shamen once /1d4 rounds versus dragonfire adept once / 1 round

Ehm, you might want to check your interpretation here. The dragonfire adept uses his breath weapon at will, not 1 / round. I personally believe that makes a big difference in qualifying for metabreath feats.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Ehm, you might want to check your interpretation here. The dragonfire adept uses his breath weapon at will, not 1 / round. I personally believe that makes a big difference in qualifying for metabreath feats.

At Will just means it has a unlimited uses per day, but the Breath Weapon requires a Standard Action to use and you only get one per round. So if you apply a Metabreath that increases the time by +1 round then a Dragonfire adept simply has to wait an extra round to use his breath weapon. In essence it becomes a every other round breath weapon then.

 

[Rvdvelden]

Then how would you handle Rapid Breath / Recover Breath with the dragonfire adept's breath weapon? Reducing the recharge time with 1 round for something that has a recharge time of 0 rounds looks impossible to me.

Furthermore, if you look at a dragon's breath weapon ability it specifically states there is a recharge time of 1d4 rounds. The dragonfire adept's breath weapon doesn't list a recharge time. To me, that states that any feat that increases / decreases the recharge time of a breath weapon isn't applicable to the dragonfire adept's breath weapon.

Last clue that makes me believe those feats aren't available for the dragonfire adept: some of the effects of these feats (clinging breath, shaped breath) are already part of the list of dragon breath effects the dragonfire adept can choose from. I think it shouldn't be possible to combine a clinging breath feat with the lingering breath effect.

Feel free to prove me wrong here. I like playing a dragonfire adept, so any ruling that I can use in my favour is always helpful. But even a powergamer like myself wouldn't allow the dragonfire adept to choose metabreath feats. Please convince me I'm wrong, I'd like to show my DM this is a totally legal tactic. :-D

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Then how would you handle Rapid Breath / Recover Breath with the dragonfire adept's breath weapon? Reducing the recharge time with 1 round for something that has a recharge time of 0 rounds looks impossible to me.

Not seeing an issue here. If I took Clinging Breath I would have a Breath Weapon that can be used once every other round. If I then took Recover Breath I reduce that time for Metabreaths by 1. So now I would be back to using the breath weapon every round again. If I took Recover Breath without any Metabreath feats then I would have a feat that does not do anything, because the feat states that the minimum time is 1 round. I am also not seeing any balance issues here as the player had to take 2 feats to be able to do this.

Furthermore, if you look at a dragon's breath weapon ability it specifically states there is a recharge time of 1d4 rounds. The dragonfire adept's breath weapon doesn't list a recharge time. To me, that states that any feat that increases / decreases the recharge time of a breath weapon isn't applicable to the dragonfire adept's breath weapon.

Their is no listing of a Human having natural armor, but for purposes of spells and magic item the human has Natural Armor +0. The PHB does not list this fact because no reason to list something is 0. A dragonfire adept can only use his breath weapon once per round each round so thats 1/round. It does not need to come out specifically and say this fact, because its a 'given'.

Last clue that makes me believe those feats aren't available for the dragonfire adept: some of the effects of these feats (clinging breath, shaped breath) are already part of the list of dragon breath effects the dragonfire adept can choose from. I think it shouldn't be possible to combine a clinging breath feat with the lingering breath effect.

I am not seeing anywhere it states that you can't take a feat if its similar to a Breath Effect? I am also not following the logic that if a class ability is similar to a feat you can't take the feat? Thats like saying a Soulknife can't take 'Psionic Weapon', because its too close to the Psychic strike class feature. Maybe it means that you could build a Dragonfire Adept that does not take Metabreath feats as he will just wait until he gets them from a class ability.

Feel free to prove me wrong here. I like playing a dragonfire adept, so any ruling that I can use in my favour is always helpful. But even a powergamer like myself wouldn't allow the dragonfire adept to choose metabreath feats. Please convince me I'm wrong, I'd like to show my DM this is a totally legal tactic. :-D

My only final point would be why build a class all about using a Breath Weapon and then not allow that class to take Metabreath feats. Its like building the fighter, but not letting the fighter take Weapon Specialization. The other point is I am not seeing a single listed rule that agrees with this. Not saying I could not have missed such a rule in the thousands of pages of rules, but something that important would be listed with the class.

 

[Darklone]

My only final point would be why build a class all about using a Breath Weapon and then not allow that class to take Metabreath feats. Its like building the fighter, but not letting the fighter take Weapon Specialization. The other point is I am not seeing a single listed rule that agrees with this. Not saying I could not have missed such a rule in the thousands of pages of rules, but something that important would be listed with the class.

Because it's broken to allow these metabreath feats for the dragonfire adept class.

Try it, you'll see.

The dragonfire adept is nothing else but a warlock variant with dragon flair, giving him a breath weapon was a bad idea IMHO. The class would have been better with a draconic blast.

 

[Rvdvelden]

Their is no listing of a Human having natural armor, but for purposes of spells and magic item the human has Natural Armor +0. The PHB does not list this fact because no reason to list something is 0. A dragonfire adept can only use his breath weapon once per round each round so thats 1/round. It does not need to come out specifically and say this fact, because its a 'given'.

I beg to differ. Improved natural armor has the prerequisite that a creature already needs to have a natural armor. According to your reasoning, every creature automatically qualifies, as they all have at least a 'natural armor +0'. I think that's not true. Same with the dragonfire adept's breath weapon: (quote; "To take a metabreath feat, a creature must have a breath weapon whose time between breaths is expressed in rounds" Dr66) This simply isn't expressed with the dragonfire adept's breath weapon, so no metabreath feats, according to me.

My only final point would be why build a class all about using a Breath Weapon and then not allow that class to take Metabreath feats. Its like building the fighter, but not letting the fighter take Weapon Specialization. The other point is I am not seeing a single listed rule that agrees with this. Not saying I could not have missed such a rule in the thousands of pages of rules, but something that important would be listed with the class.

Maybe because it is already powerful enough using it every single round and applying the breath effects the dragonfire adept already gets? I concur with Darklone; allowing this looks very broken to me.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I beg to differ. Improved natural armor has the prerequisite that a creature already needs to have a natural armor. According to your reasoning, every creature automatically qualifies, as they all have at least a 'natural armor +0'. I think that's not true. .....

LOL Yes all creatures with out a Natural Armor bonus has a natural Armor +0. Which is why a human character can wear a Amulet of Natural Armor +1 as Natural Armor +0 plus Natural Armor +1 gives a total effective bonus of +1.

See Barkskin spell
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm
"A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0."

I believe you are being too literal in your interpretation of the class, but if you are happy with how you are playing thats great. I don't know what else to say to convince you.

Happy gaming...