D&D 5E Feats: Toughness, Inspiring Leader, Healer, and Magic Initiate

[smbakeresq]

Well for Healer I use d6 + medicine skill + hd as in feat. The rogue using it for free I don’t allow, IMO you are using the kit on a person, not interacting with a static object; I think that’s how the rule was intended. The usefulness of the kit is dependent on how many short rests you get and if you track usage until it is depleted. I do, so carry a spare.

Inspiring Leader is strong and thematic, it’s very useful and scales ok. It’s pre healing and that’s good and allows aid not to be used, saving a spell slot. Always use it on Paladins, most times on bards.

Toughness is the durable alternative for an even CON score. If your DM pushes you past the standard 2 combats then SR then toughness can see use.

Magic initiate is used to get eldritch blast or booming blade or shilleagh to skip a level dip. The real question is if it’s worth 300xp, if you are going to build around those a first level dip might give you more.


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[Saeviomagy]

Hit point loss occurs over multiple time frames. Over the whole adventure as hit dice are depleted, over a day as hit dice and healing runs low, over a whole combat as incoming damage outpaces available healing actions, over a round , or even in a single massive hit.

Toughness helps with all of these scenarios, but is less effective if you lack the resources to fill the extra hit points. At high levels, this is less of an issue... But at low levels it also saves you from instant death, which effectively refills for free every time you stand up.

Leadership helps more with longer time scales as it replenishes itself more often than toughness. It's downside is that it provides less of a buffer to an individual, it doesn't synergize with other resources, and it is redundant to have it twice in a party. These combine to make the extra hit points useful less often.

Healer helps with both long term and short term health, but only helps in single round or single hit scenarios retrospectively. It also competes with other actions, even when a thief is using it. Typically it will also consume movement and entail risk to use, placing the user in the same spot as someone who is taking a lot of damage.

Magic initiate is less raw hit points than healer, but much less risky (if you take healing word) and has other benefits. Choosing a healing spell with it is probably not the most effective use of it.

In other words, they all have their niche in a game where surviving long term is an issue.

 

[Ritorix]

I've had some success with a few of these feats.

Toughness I took on a bear totem barbarian at level 12. It gave a nice boost of 24 HP, but was effectively twice as good thanks to rage resists. Those 24HP let him soak 48 damage, and that continued to scale.

Leadership I took on a vhuman bard at level 1. The THP boost was a great, 'always-on' buff for the whole group, and it fit the character's support role. Definitely nice for someone in the party to have.

Magic Initiate I took for a vhuman dragon sorc at level 1. I took class:sorcerer, and learned Shield. Sorcs have a very low spells-known count, so this permanently slots one of the most important spells, frees up a slot for higher-level spells later on, and gives a free casting per day of it. It can be used with normal spell slots too. And yeah, a few cantrips.

Healer I took on a vhuman monk at 1, intending to run around and help out with support if needed. But that turned out to be a mistake, redundant with a cleric, and I swapped it out for the Mobile feat later on. Healer was probably the weakest option based on my experience and seeing it at the table.

 

[Xeviat]

See, I don’t think of Healer as an in combat thing, though the fact that it’s comparable to a first level spell and becomes comparable to higher later still says it could see some use:

Cure Wounds (Stat 12-20)
1st: 5.5-9.5
2nd: 10-14
3rd: 14.5-18.5
4th: 19-23
5th: 23.5-27.5

1st: 8.5 (CW 1st)
2nd: 9.5 (CW 1st)
3rd: 10.5 (CW 2nd)
4th: 11.5 (CW 2nd)
5th: 12.5 (CW 2nd)*
6th: 13.5 (CW 2nd)
7th: 14.5 (CW 3rd)
8th: 15.5 (CW 3rd)
9th: 16.5 (CW 3rd)
10th: 17.5 (CW 3rd)
11th: 18.5 (CW 3rd)*
12th: 19.5 (CW 4th)
13th: 20.5 (CW 4th)
14th: 21.5 (CW 4th)
15th: 22.5 (CW 4th)*
16th: 23.5 (CW 5th)
17th: 24.5 (CW 5th)
18th: 25.5 (CW 5th)
19th: 26.5 (CW 5th)
20th: 27.5 (CW 5th)*

Healer is giving you 12 uses of this in a typical adventuring day. That’s the equivalent of more spell slots than a 10th Level Warlock has access to.

(I do like that this almost perfectly matches up with 1/2 caster spell progression. Inspiring Leader and Healer on a Battle Master Fighter could make a really warlord feeling character).

So, I feel the need to nerf the feat, but I’d rather do it by moving some of it to the base healer kit. Yes, this will increase the healing my groups have access to, but it will increase the floor, not the ceiling. I don’t want to change it to a 1/long rest

I’d like it to be within the range of the extra HP that Toughness+Durable grants, which would be 4/Level spread across an isolated day (as HD only recover 1/2 per day). Healer won’t get it’s full value all the time, as not everyone in the party is taking damage (even so, if only one person was taking damage, healer is currently granting 110 healing to that one person).

Dropping Inspiring Leader to 1/long rest makes it about 100 Extra HP per day. That’s close enough for me.

So, Healer needs to grant somewhere in the ballpark of 80 extra healing across the day. 80/12 is 6.66. That’s real close to the Proficiency bonus (@smbakeresq idea of factoring proficiency bonus is real nice). 100/12 is 8.33. 2+Proficiency bonus, so it’s 1d6+4+Level at 1st? But that would increase the amount of healing available. I could remove the die, and just have it work in addition to HD expenditure.

1d6+4 (7.5) + Level (8.5-27.5)
Healing Mod (2-17, depending on expertise)

If Healer Kits allowed 1d6+(number of HD of target) 1/short rest, the Healer feat could grant +proficiency bonus to that healing. The Healer Kit healing should scale, or else it would be weak.

I’m rambling now. Am I alone on this observation?


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[Satyrn]

The rogue using it for free I don’t allow, IMO you are using the kit on a person, not interacting with a static object; I think that’s how the rule was intended.

I'm right there with you. Bandaging someone doesn't belong in the same category of action as opening a door or drawing a sword.

 

[Xeviat]

I'm right there with you. Bandaging someone doesn't belong in the same category of action as opening a door or drawing a sword.

I’m with you too. “Use an Object” is a specific action.


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[smbakeresq]

So is the med kit, healer says "as an action." To me that means using the kit is specifically an action, it isn't rolled the generic using an object.

Using the Medicine as the skill lets you get rid of the generic +4, it should be skill based with the Medicine skill and it will scale better.

 

[Xeviat]

So is the med kit, healer says "as an action." To me that means using the kit is specifically an action, it isn't rolled the generic using an object.

Using the Medicine as the skill lets you get rid of the generic +4, it should be skill based with the Medicine skill and it will scale better.

It will give it some interesting scaling, but it will end up higher and make the problem I have with it even larger.

If the base med kit allowed a 1/short rest per target 1d6 (or maybe even HD size) plus level heal (allowing for longer days and less reliance on spell healing), would you take a feat that granted +Proficiency bonus to the amount healed?


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[happyhermit]

Inspiring Leader is (Cha+Level)*PCs*Short Rests. That’s the problem. Limiting it to 1/long rest would still be valuable. How many times can your boss give you a pep-talk and still have it invigorate you?
...

I would think a truly inspiring leader would be able to give at least a pep talk to start the day and then one after lunch. Or pre-game and then the iconic half-time speech, or between periods in hockey, etc. Limiting it to once per day based on verisimilitude seems more problematic than once per rest.

 

[smbakeresq]

It will give it some interesting scaling, but it will end up higher and make the problem I have with it even larger.

If the base med kit allowed a 1/short rest per target 1d6 (or maybe even HD size) plus level heal (allowing for longer days and less reliance on spell healing), would you take a feat that granted +Proficiency bonus to the amount healed?


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The healing kit scales up a lot slower then your HP. At first level its half your hp or more, much less later. At 8th level your d8 for HP with 14 con will have about 56 HP, your healers kit will be doing 13-18 healing using PHB rules, that's only %25-%33 of your HP. Or a total of 52-76 to a 4 person group. Aura of Life will be 20-120, or 70-170 by someone with a level of Life Cleric (highly recommended!)

I encourage the use of the "utility" feats like this one by using medicine skill instead of flat +4 and durable (I use the benefit of the feat whenever any dice are rolled to regain HP.) These feats are good IMO but clearly worse to then some others.

By doing this I can "break" the pattern of 2 combats then SR (using up their 1/2 their daily healing dice) then 2 more (using rest of healing dice) and push the party into 3 - 4 damaging encounters per short rest, which is more exciting for the party. Also allows party to adventure over several consecutive days, which is good for the campaign.