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5E Features to support every stat for generic classes?

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Quick description: One concept I've been working on sporadically for my next game is a conversion of Beyond the Wall (BtW) to 5e. If you don't know the game, BtW is an OSR-like game that uses detailed playbooks to generate characters who are all young heroes from the same village, with the general feel of Prydain Chronicles or Wizard of Earthsea.

One of the things I like about the playbooks is that they make very organic characters; you might end up with a warrior from the Village Watch with a 17 Wisdom and training in Herbalism, or a Witch's Apprentice Mage with 16 Strength and Charisma who only knows the Unseen Servant ritual. It also only has 3 classes; Warrior, Rogue and Mage.

What I intend to do is to generate the character using the playbooks, and then convert them to 5e using the generic classes introduced in the Unearthed Arcana Sidekicks article, with some minor tweaking. My current sticking point is this:

I want to have each class have a unique mechanical support for each stat, so that a high Charisma warrior is as useful in combat as high Strength warrior, and a high Strength mage has as much capability for magic as a high Intelligence mage. But, I also want them to be expressed differently. While I have no problem with stat replacement as a last resort, I'd like to develop features that leverage the concept of the stat into distinct thematic abilities.

To support this, I'm using the following base rule changes:

a) When using a weapon you have proficiency in, you may substitute your proficiency modifier for your Strength or Dexterity modifier in the attack and damage rolls. (This makes high Str or Dex a useful bonus at low levels, but only by a small amount.)
b) When wearing armor you are proficient in or unarmored, you may use your proficiency bonus in place of your Dexterity modifier.
c) You use Wisdom as the modifying stat for Initiative rolls.
d) For Mages, you use Intelligence + level to determine the number of spells you can prepare, and Charisma to determine the Spell attack modifier and Spell save DC.

tl;dr: What sort of features can make Cha warriors, Con rogues, and Str mages viable in a game with 3 generic classes?
 

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How about 6 archtypes per class?
Warrior Str: Great Weapon
Warrior Dex: Archer
Warrior Con: Heavy Armor
Warrior Int: Logistics
Warrior Wis: Tactics
Warrior Cha: Bravura

Rogue Str: Thug
Rogue Dex: Swashbuckler
Rogue Con: Alchemist
Rogue Int: Mastermind
Rogue Wis: Scout
Rogue Cha: Bard

Mage Str: Fire
Mage Dex: Air
Mage Con: Earth
Mage Int: Water
Mage Wis: Craft
Mage Cha: Illusion
 

tl;dr: What sort of features can make Cha warriors, Con rogues, and Str mages viable in a game with 3 generic classes?
I'm left wondering what the point of folding Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock, & Wizard into 'Mage' and Fighter, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger & Paladin into 'Warrior,' but leaving Rogue it's own thing is? ;) I mean, I can totally see Paladin & Ranger and a lot of other things being done just MCing between a Warrior and a caster of some sort. But, in 5e, where a Warrior can go DEX as easily as STR, and everyone gets skills, the Rogue making the Final Three just doesn't seem right.

Anyway. You could do the 13A 'middle stat' thing.

Warrior:
Attack: Middle stat of STR, CHA, DEX
Damage: Middle stat of STR, CON, CHA
AC bonus: Middle stat of DEX, INT, WIS

Mage:
Spell Attack: Middle stat of INT, DEX, CHA
Save DC: Middle stat of INT, WIS, CHA
Spells known: Middle stat of INT, WIS, CON

etc...

I want to have each class have a unique mechanical support for each stat, so that a high Charisma warrior is as useful in combat as high Strength warrior, and a high Strength mage has as much capability for magic as a high Intelligence mage. But, I also want them to be expressed differently.
I guess you'd really need to find 6 equally-important-yet-ultimately-dispensable things for each class to 'need.' That seems a tall order.

Currently, in 5e:

Warrior:
STR: melee/thrown attack/damage
DEX: finesse/missile attack/dam, AC
CON: hp
INT/WIS/CHA: nuth'n.

Mage:
INT: spell attack, DC, spells known, Arcana skill
DEX: AC
CON: hp
WIS/CHA: nuth'n

Rogue:
DEX: finesse/missile attack/dam, AC, Stealth, Thieves' Tools, Acrobatics,
CON: hp
INT: Investigation
WIS: Perception
CHA: Streetwise
STR: nuth'n

….hmmm...
 
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TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
How about 6 archtypes per class?
Warrior Str: Great Weapon
Warrior Dex: Archer
Warrior Con: Heavy Armor
Warrior Int: Logistics
Warrior Wis: Tactics
Warrior Cha: Bravura

Rogue Str: Thug
Rogue Dex: Swashbuckler
Rogue Con: Alchemist
Rogue Int: Mastermind
Rogue Wis: Scout
Rogue Cha: Bard

Mage Str: Fire
Mage Dex: Air
Mage Con: Earth
Mage Int: Water
Mage Wis: Craft
Mage Cha: Illusion
Hmm, I like several of these. Brainstorming on some the warrior concepts:

Str Warrior: Power Attack: You can subtract your Strength modifier from your attack roll. If you do, add double your Strength modifier to the damage roll.

Con Warrior: While wearing your medium or heavy armor, you reduce the amount of slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage you take by an amount equal to your Constitution modifier.

Int Warrior: When you take the Attack action, in place of making an attack, you can grant an ally within 30 feet of you an additional attack the next time they take the Attack action during their turn. If they do not take the Attack action of their next turn, the additional attack is lost.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
I'm left wondering what the point of folding Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Warlock, & Wizard into 'Mage' and Fighter, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger & Paladin into 'Warrior,' but leaving Rogue it's own thing is? ;) I mean, I can totally see Paladin & Ranger and a lot of other things being done just MCing between a Warrior and a caster of some sort. But, in 5e, where a Warrior can go DEX as easily as STR, and everyone gets skills, the Rogue making the Final Three just doesn't seem right.
A fair point. Rogue is just the rename of the sidekick expert class, it's intended to be the support class. It gets the ability to do Help as a bonus action, as well as multiple skill expertise. Warrior and Rogue will also get half-caster progression, but don't learn spells or have a spellbook natively. Magic, at least in the beginning, is primarily ritualistic and shamanistic, lots of crafting potions and wands and scribing scrolls. The normal divisions between casters don't really exist. Paladin and Ranger would be more of a "prestige class" as I'm envisioning them, something you have to discover and dedicate the character to.

Oh, and Barbarian Rage or equivalent might not make a bad Con feature. Something like "When battle starts, you can choose to enter a battle frenzy, allowing you to make an extra weapon as a bonus action. This battle frenzy lasts for 1 minute, after which you gain one level of exhaustion. You can ignore levels of exhaustion equal to your Constitution modifier."

Anyway. You could do the 13A 'middle stat' thing.

Warrior:
Attack: Middle stat of STR, CHA, DEX
Damage: Middle stat of STR, CON, CHA
AC bonus: Middle stat of DEX, INT, WIS

Mage:
Spell Attack: Middle stat of INT, DEX, CHA
Save DC: Middle stat of INT, WIS, CHA
Spells known: Middle stat of INT, WIS, CON

etc...
I do like the 13A stat approach, but I don't like the feel for this particular game. I want getting a high stat to feel meaningful, as you generally end up with high stats in the 14-16 range from the playbooks.

I guess you'd really need to find 6 equally-important-yet-ultimately-dispensable things for each class to 'need.' That seems a tall order.
Oh, it's absolutely tricky, which is why I'm asking for help! I'm not even sure if it's 100% feasible, but I think with enough brainstorming I can hack something together.

Currently, in 5e:

Warrior:
STR: melee/thrown attack/damage
DEX: finesse/missile attack/dam, AC
CON: hp
INT/WIS/CHA: nuth'n.

Mage:
INT: spell attack, DC, spells known, Arcana skill
DEX: AC
CON: hp
WIS/CHA: nuth'n

Rogue:
DEX: finesse/missile attack/dam, AC, Stealth, Thieves' Tools, Acrobatics,
CON: hp
INT: Investigation
WIS: Perception
CHA: Streetwise
STR: nuth'n

….hmmm...
I feel like Warlord stuff might fit for Int/Wis/Cha warriors, bard stuff for Cha rogue, maybe a spellbook for Int Rogues (Int Rogue would fit as a Sage type, Cha rogue as a negotiator). Physical Mage is the tough one, for me. I'm thinking of how 4e sorcerers got Str and Dex as secondaries as kind of an archetype there, with their magic being the reason they're strong/dextrous in the first place. Some kind of focus on buffing or transmutation magic. Or maybe some gish features?
 

..
I feel like Warlord stuff might fit for Int/Wis/Cha warriors, bard stuff for Cha rogue, maybe a spellbook for Int Rogues (Int Rogue would fit as a Sage type, Cha rogue as a negotiator). Physical Mage is the tough one, for me. I'm thinking of how 4e sorcerers got Str and Dex as secondaries as kind of an archetype there, with their magic being the reason they're strong/dextrous in the first place. Some kind of focus on buffing or transmutation magic. Or maybe some gish features?
So you're willing to go fairly deep into lifting and/or creating various features for each class?
Oh, and Barbarian Rage or equivalent might not make a bad Con feature.
I suppose, since you're sorta using consolidated/simplified classes, you could pull abilities from regular classes based on a stat prerequisite? 3 consolidated classes, 6 stats, you'd only have to pick out 18 features. Like, a high-CON rogue could pull the Ranger's "Natural Explorer" or a high-CON mage the wizard's Arcane Recovery?
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
..
So you're willing to go fairly deep into lifting and/or creating various features for each class?
I suppose, since you're sorta using consolidated/simplified classes, you could pull abilities from regular classes based on a stat prerequisite? 3 consolidated classes, 6 stats, you'd only have to pick out 18 features. Like, a high-CON rogue could pull the Ranger's "Natural Explorer" or a high-CON mage the wizard's Arcane Recovery?
Oh, absolutely. I'm using the 5e skeleton (spell lists, equipment list, skills, proficiency system) but the class design is completely different. The sidekick classes are just a starting point.
 

Pillars of Eternity has a six-stat system that approaches your goals.

Might improves all damage, even spells.
Constitution does what it always does.
Dexterity improves action speed.
Perception improves all attack rolls (and you roll to attack with spells rather than force saving throws, a la 4E) and the chance to interrupt enemy actions.
Intellect improves all effect durations and areas.
And Resolve improves Deflection (AC) and the chance to resist interruption.

It's a fascinating system, where you can build a barbarian with INT > MIG and a wizard with MIG > INT and make a good argument that those were the correct calls.

Details: Attributes
 

Horwath

Adventurer
or reduce 6 abilites to 4.

Strength(STR): melee and thrown attack and damage, bonus HPs, Ability to wear heavier armour, FORT saves, Athletics,

Dexterity(DEX): finesse and ranged attack and damage, AC, REF saves, Initiative, Acrobatics, Stealth, Thievery,

Willpower(WILL): spell attack, damage and DCs, bonus spells(if any), WILL saves, Concentration,

Cunning(CUNN): Bonus languages, Bonus skills, Bonus tools, Initiative, Arcana, History, Nature, Religion, Insight, Medicine, Perception, Survival, Deception, Intimidation, Persuation, Perform.

This way you concentrate the value of every ability(except dex, but it is concentrated enough already), so dumping will hurt you more.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
or reduce 6 abilites to 4.

Strength(STR): melee and thrown attack and damage, bonus HPs, Ability to wear heavier armour, FORT saves, Athletics,

Dexterity(DEX): finesse and ranged attack and damage, AC, REF saves, Initiative, Acrobatics, Stealth, Thievery,

Willpower(WILL): spell attack, damage and DCs, bonus spells(if any), WILL saves, Concentration,

Cunning(CUNN): Bonus languages, Bonus skills, Bonus tools, Initiative, Arcana, History, Nature, Religion, Insight, Medicine, Perception, Survival, Deception, Intimidation, Persuation, Perform.

This way you concentrate the value of every ability(except dex, but it is concentrated enough already), so dumping will hurt you more.
A nice idea, but then I can't use the Beyond the Wall playbooks, which is one of the driving concepts of the game.
 

This isn't balanced at all yet. It would work better with lower stats you build up as you gain levels. But I like the feel.

Warrior
Great Weapon
: When you hit with a weapon, you can a 2nd weapon damage die. You can do this a number of times equal to your strength bonus between rests.
Weaponmaster: When you miss with a weapon by less than your Dexterity bonus, you can instead hit. You can do this a number of times equal to your Dexterity bonus between rests.
Tough: When you take damage, you can reduce the damage by your AC before Dexterity bonus. You can do this a number of times equal to your Constitution bonus between rests.
Strategy: As a reaction to someone completing their turn, you can move a different ally's (who you can communicate with) initiative to immediately after that turn. You can do this at most once per round, and a number of times equal to your Intelligence bonus between long rests.
Tactics: As a reaction you can force an enemy to reroll an attack or save with disadvantage, or an ally to reroll an attack or save with advantage. The creature in question must be able to hear you. You can do this a number of times equal to your Wisdom bonus between rests.
Bravura: When you spend an action point, a up to your charisma bonus allies that can hear you can as a reaction move their speed and make an attack or cast a cantrip. They gain a bonus to their attack rolls and damage equal to your charisma bonus.

Rogue
Thug
: When you deal Sneak Attack damage, you can attempt to stun the target. They must make a constitution save against a DC equal to 8+strength bonus+proficiency or be stunned until the start of your next turn. You can do this a number of times equal to your strength bonus before taking a rest.
Swashbuckler: When an attack hits you, as a reaction you may add your proficiency bonus plus your dexterity bonus to your AC. If it still hits you, you take half damage. When an attack misses you, as a reaction you can move up to half of your speed and make an attack on a different target; this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. You can do either of these reactions a number of times equal to your dexterity bonus before completing a rest.
Alchemist: In 10 minutes during a rest you can construct an alchemical dose of a salve, weapon treatment or potion. You can safely keep up to your constitution bonus in such doses at any one time; if you have more than that, every time you take damage you must make a concentration check or one of them at random breaks and you suffer the effects. Incomplete.
Mastermind: You can use the help action as a bonus action or reaction to someone failing a roll with a range of 30' a number of times equal to your intelligence bonus before completing a rest.
Scout: You can choose a prey as an action. Your prey can be anyone you are aware of existing, even just from tracks. You have advantage on attacks on your prey and saving throws against effects caused by your prey, they have disadvantage to hit you, and you have advantage on all skill checks involving your prey. If you hit your prey before the end of your next turn, you deal an additional wis bonus d6 damage. You can have up to your wisdom bonus prey at one time.
Bard: You have d8 inspiration dice equal to your charisma bonus. As a bonus action you can grant an ally an inspiration die, which they can spend any time over the next 10 minutes when they make an ability check, saving throw or attack roll. You regain your inspiration dice during a rest.

Mage
Fire
: You have a number of d6 fire magic dice equal to your strength bonus. As an action you can create a fire bolt (strength+proficiency attack) or expend your dice to create an explosion (5' per strength bonus radius explosion within 60', dex save vs 8+strength+proficiency, half damage on success). You regain fire magic dice at a rate of 1d per round.
Air: You have a number of d8 air magic dice equal to your dex bonus. Incomplete.
Earth: You have a number of d12 earth magic dice equal to your con bonus. Incomplete.
Water: You have a number of d10 water magic dice equal to your int bonus. Incomplete.
Craft: You can bond to up to your wis bonus in spirit familiars at a time. Incomplete.
Illusion: You have a number of d4 illusion magic dice equal to your charisma bonus. Incomplete.
 
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TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
This isn't balanced at all yet. It would work better with lower stats you build up as you gain levels. But I like the feel.

Warrior
Great Weapon
: When you hit with a weapon, you can a 2nd weapon damage die. You can do this a number of times equal to your strength bonus between rests.
Weaponmaster: When you miss with a weapon by less than your Dexterity bonus, you can instead hit. You can do this a number of times equal to your Dexterity bonus between rests.
Tough: When you take damage, you can reduce the damage by your AC before Dexterity bonus. You can do this a number of times equal to your Constitution bonus between rests.
Strategy: As a reaction to someone completing their turn, you can move a different ally's (who you can communicate with) initiative to immediately after that turn. You can do this at most once per round, and a number of times equal to your Intelligence bonus between long rests.
Tactics: As a reaction you can force an enemy to reroll an attack or save with disadvantage, or an ally to reroll an attack or save with advantage. The creature in question must be able to hear you. You can do this a number of times equal to your Wisdom bonus between rests.
Bravura: When you spend an action point, a up to your charisma bonus allies that can hear you can as a reaction move their speed and make an attack or cast a cantrip. They gain a bonus to their attack rolls and damage equal to your charisma bonus.

Rogue
Thug
: When you deal Sneak Attack damage, you can attempt to stun the target. They must make a constitution save against a DC equal to 8+strength bonus+proficiency or be stunned until the start of your next turn. You can do this a number of times equal to your strength bonus before taking a rest.
Swashbuckler: When an attack hits you, as a reaction you may add your proficiency bonus plus your dexterity bonus to your AC. If it still hits you, you take half damage. When an attack misses you, as a reaction you can move up to half of your speed and make an attack on a different target; this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. You can do either of these reactions a number of times equal to your dexterity bonus before completing a rest.
Alchemist: In 10 minutes during a rest you can construct an alchemical dose of a salve, weapon treatment or potion. You can safely keep up to your constitution bonus in such doses at any one time; if you have more than that, every time you take damage you must make a concentration check or one of them at random breaks and you suffer the effects. Incomplete.
Mastermind: You can use the help action as a bonus action or reaction to someone failing a roll with a range of 30' a number of times equal to your intelligence bonus before completing a rest.
Scout: You can choose a prey as an action. Your prey can be anyone you are aware of existing, even just from tracks. You have advantage on attacks on your prey and saving throws against effects caused by your prey, they have disadvantage to hit you, and you have advantage on all skill checks involving your prey. If you hit your prey before the end of your next turn, you deal an additional wis bonus d6 damage. You can have up to your wisdom bonus prey at one time.
Bard: You have d8 inspiration dice equal to your charisma bonus. As a bonus action you can grant an ally an inspiration die, which they can spend any time over the next 10 minutes when they make an ability check, saving throw or attack roll. You regain your inspiration dice during a rest.

Mage
Fire
: You have a number of d6 fire magic dice equal to your strength bonus. As an action you can create a fire bolt (strength+proficiency attack) or expend your dice to create an explosion (5' per strength bonus radius explosion within 60', dex save vs 8+strength+proficiency, half damage on success). You regain fire magic dice at a rate of 1d per round.
Air: You have a number of d8 air magic dice equal to your dex bonus. Incomplete.
Earth: You have a number of d12 earth magic dice equal to your con bonus. Incomplete.
Water: You have a number of d10 water magic dice equal to your int bonus. Incomplete.
Craft: You can bond to up to your wis bonus in spirit familiars at a time. Incomplete.
Illusion: You have a number of d4 illusion magic dice equal to your charisma bonus. Incomplete.
I like a lot of these; thanks for the suggestions!
 

Larrin

Entropic Good
I had an idea a while back for a Con-rogue (subclass named "Burglar" as a working title) that used Con synergizing with dexterity to represent patience and concentration. So skill bonuses out of combat when they had time to work slowly and in-combat bonuses to doing difficult tasks under pressure and ignoring distractions. I never really got further than the high concept, but I always felt there was something there.
 

jmucchiello

Adventurer
How about 6 archtypes per class?
Warrior Str: Great Weapon
Warrior Dex: Archer
Warrior Con: Heavy Armor
Warrior Int: Logistics
Warrior Wis: Tactics
Warrior Cha: Bravura

Rogue Str: Thug
Rogue Dex: Swashbuckler
Rogue Con: Alchemist
Rogue Int: Mastermind
Rogue Wis: Scout
Rogue Cha: Bard

Mage Str: Fire
Mage Dex: Air
Mage Con: Earth
Mage Int: Water
Mage Wis: Craft
Mage Cha: Illusion
Cleric?
Druid?
Monk?

I expected to see the first two in the Mage section.

Mage Str: Blood wizard
Mage Dex: Art of motion (dance/dervish wizard)
Mage Con: Warlock
Mage Int: Wizard (spellbook kind of guy)
Mage Wis: Cleric
Mage Cha: Sorcerer

Also, if you (I know NotAYakk isn't the OP) are doing playbooks. How are you going to deal with spells? There are a lot of them.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Also, if you (I know NotAYakk isn't the OP) are doing playbooks. How are you going to deal with spells? There are a lot of them.
My apologies, but I'm not clear on what you mean by "dealing with spells"? The playbooks do specify which spells they get upon character creation, which I'll convert into 5e equivalents.
 

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