Feinting in Combat

[Xahn'Tyr]

Hrrm, that could cause problems. There isn't really a state of "being flanked" in the game mechanics. It's the misconception of such a state that leads new players to ask "Well, if those too guys are flanking the monster, then I should get a +2 to hit from over here right?".

The answer, of course, is no. And the reason is because your two friends are flanking the monster; the monster is only flanked with regards to them specifically. The monster is not "flanked" in the general sense, so the +2 bonus does not apply too anyone who is not actually in a flanking position with respect to him.

Your rule about feinting only creatures flanked by you "or other people" goes against this mechanic and might cause confusion by introducing an erronious concept. Just something to keep in mind (aside from the fact that you are greatly weakening the Feint ability).

 

[Aryes]

I failed to mention that feint is also Rule 0'd to be used in melee only. I don't see anything with an intelligence above 3 actually falling for a "bluff" more than once in a combat without something else threatening them as well, anything less would almost be to dumb to even notice it.

Rogue- *Waves his left hand way high in the air*
Evil doer- *Looks at left hand*
Rogue- *Slaps evil doer with right hand*
Evil doer- Grrrr... that was dastardly.
Rogue- *Waves his left hand way high in the air*
Evil doer- *Looks at left hand*
Rogue- *Slaps evil doer with right hand*
Evil doer- Grrrr, once again your left handed prowess has baffled me, you dastardly rogue, you.
Rogue- *Waves left hand way high......



Et. al. wash, rinse and repeat.

That's why I allow it once per creature per combat without that creature already being flanked..... maybe I'll change it to just being threatened. Hmmmm....

 

[reapersaurus]

Look, either way you think a feint is:
whether it's A) distracting gestures, a head-fake, or such,
or whether it's B) pointing behind the guy and saying "Look Out!"

it makes NO SENSE why A) rogues would be better at it than fighters and B) why it would work in combat in the first place.

Case A) the rogue uses a series of head-fakes and lunges and such to cause the fighter to lose focus on what the rogue is really doing in combat.

Puh-lease.
As if a fighter, who extensivelly studies all techniques of combat on a day-to-day basis as a CAREER is going to be thrown off by what a punk rogue can do in combat?
Those head-fakes and such are what is emulated by BAB!
I agree that they are an integral part of combat - that's why fighters go up in BAB every level, and rogues don't ; because fighters are better at combat than rogues.

Rogues already have sneak attack, which can eclipse the amount of damage a fighter can do.
But those are explicit surprise or unaware scenarios where that happens.
To allow a Feint and a sneak attack in a straight-up hand-to-hand combat is baffling to me, and does the fighter's extensive combat-training a great disservice in my eyes.

Case B) even MORE insulting to the fighter.
You're telling me that a battle-hardened vet of countless fatal battles is going to fall for a foppish rogue pointing somewhere else... and the fighter goes for it?!
Ha!
In a real combat, the fighter would go - "Yup - this shifty no-combat wuss is gonna try to fake me out - there's my opening!" and crush him while the rogue is assuming he'll fall for the oldest combat trick in the book.

 

[gnfnrf]

In a real combat, the fighter would go - "Yup - this shifty no-combat wuss is gonna try to fake me out - there's my opening!" and crush him while the rogue is assuming he'll fall for the oldest combat trick in the book.

I think the problem you have is far more fundamental. 3E rogues aren't no-combat wusses anymore, and feinting in combat is part of that.

If you think rogues should be no-combat wusses, that is another discussion entirely.

--
gnfnrf

 

[reapersaurus]

3E rogues aren't no-combat wusses anymore, and feinting in combat is part of that.

Next time, please don't concentrate on an in-character statement to attempt to refute points.

And many people have insisted that a rogue is not a combat character, not me.
How many times have you heard that it is not a good thing when a rogue gets caught in HTH combat, or that an in-combat rogue will die very quickly, etc.