Feints, Invisible Blade, Free actions

[Coredump]

First: Upon initial reading (long time ago) of the skill Bluff, I read that a feint affected the next attack, as in 'set of' attacks. So the full iteration of a full attack. Most seem to disagree with that. Does anyone see a feint as affecting the entire next round of attacks, instead of just the next one attack?


Invisible Blade (Complete Warrior) gives a class ability to make a feint as a free action. So I can move up to someone, feint, and then gut them with SA (assuming feint worked)

But next round, I get 3 attacks. Can I do 3 feints, since they are free actions? Is there limit? What do people think?

 

[Darklone]

The author said, it was supposed to be one feint attempt per available attack. So three feints.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Can I do 3 feints, since they are free actions? Is there limit? What do people think?

There is no hard limit of free actions per round, at least not as per the core rules. But they state that the actual number of free actions you can do is at the DM's discretion.

 

[shilsen]

First: Upon initial reading (long time ago) of the skill Bluff, I read that a feint affected the next attack, as in 'set of' attacks. So the full iteration of a full attack. Most seem to disagree with that. Does anyone see a feint as affecting the entire next round of attacks, instead of just the next one attack?

No. Considering the description refers to your "next attack", it's pretty clear that it applies to the first attack.

 

[Coredump]

Yeah, I am willing to go with that. It was more wishful thinking than anything else.


But what about the second part? While it is technically 'up to the DM', how many free action feints seem appropriate? Should it be tied to IB level? Overall level? Dex score? Any suggestions?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

But what about the second part? While it is technically 'up to the DM', how many free action feints seem appropriate? Should it be tied to IB level? Overall level? Dex score? Any suggestions?

In the context of the ability, I'd allow it for every attack you make. It almost becomes part of the attack routine.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In the context of the ability, I'd allow it for every attack you make. It almost becomes part of the attack routine.

Yup.

Without the DM exercising judgement, or taking into account the (unwritten) suggestion of the PrC author, though, you could have a player arguing that since it's a free action, he can feint until he rolls a 20, then attack, then feint until he rolls a 20, then make his next attack...

This is Bad. Don't let them try to get away with it.

-Hyp.

 

[youspoonybard]

It seems like a pretty big power jump to me, though.

Being able to SA on 1 attack per round is the beginning ability, and now he can SA every attack every round?

It is better than the "feint until it works" conclusion, though...

 

[Coredump]

In this case I am the player. I felt it was plenty powerful being able to feint once for each attack. It would have never occured to me to try and munchkin a 'feint until it works'.

Though technically, I would rule the player doesn't know if it works...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Though technically, I would rule the player doesn't know if it works...

Absolutely. You don't know what he's rolling on his Sense Motive checks.

But if you feint until you roll a 20, odds are one of them probably worked.

That's why we say "No! Only once!"

Being able to SA on 1 attack per round is the beginning ability, and now he can SA every attack every round?

There was a thread on the WotC boards where Sonofapreacherman (the designer of the class) was explaining why it wasn't overpowered. He'd gotten the impression that the defender added his attack bonus, not just his base attack bonus, to his Sense Motive roll. (As in, BAB, plus Str bonus, plus Weapon Focus, plus enhancement bonus, plus...)

Of course, once this was pointed out, he continued to maintain that it wasn't overpowered, but it didn't really do his credibility any help in my eyes...

-Hyp.