Fell Flight & Expeditious Retreat

[Quidam]

Fell Flight is based upon your base land speed. Expeditious Retreat increases your base land speed by 30'. As long as you activated Fell Flight after you cast Expeditious Retreat, would you fly faster? Expeditious Retreat specifically says it doesn't increase fly speeds, but it's not- Fell Flight is simply being based on a different base land speed.

Or does Fell Flight cast earlier adjust as your base land speed changes?

 

[irdeggman]

Where is Fell Flight from?

Are they both enhancement bonuses? (Expeditious Retreat is).

If so, they shouldn't "stack" in any way.

 

[Drowbane]

Fell Flight is based upon your base land speed. Expeditious Retreat increases your base land speed by 30'. As long as you activated Fell Flight after you cast Expeditious Retreat, would you fly faster? Expeditious Retreat specifically says it doesn't increase fly speeds, but it's not- Fell Flight is simply being based on a different base land speed.

Or does Fell Flight cast earlier adjust as your base land speed changes?

1) yes

2) no. You "cast" Fell Flight and check your base land speed at that time... that is your Fly Speed. Dispel can be painful.

 

[Stalker0]

1) yes

2) no. You "cast" Fell Flight and check your base land speed at that time... that is your Fly Speed. Dispel can be painful.

I actually say yes for the second, as I think it become needlessly complicated to start checking when spells are cast when.

Ex. Retreat + Fell Flight = faster fell flight....period.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Plus, you could always re-invoke Fell Flight anyway...

 

[Raspen]

since fell flight dont say base land speed could it be that it is treated as the action such as run x5 speed or charge x2 speed where the flight speed changes by its action?

 

[saucercrab]

Where is Fell Flight from?

Are they both enhancement bonuses? (Expeditious Retreat is).

If so, they shouldn't "stack" in any way.

In case you didn't get the inferences, fell flight is a lesser warlock invocation.

As to the topic, I don't think ER should increase FF. ER says it doesn't affect other movement modes.

 

[Quidam]

As to the topic, I don't think ER should increase FF. ER says it doesn't affect other movement modes.

Which is why I think it would not if you cast ER after FF. ER increases your base land speed, which is what FF checks- is there some rule somewhere differentiating between base land speed and really really base land speed?

I take a light tone not to mock your point- I can see it from that side, since ER spells it out specifically. The order of operations possibilities made me consider it an arguable issue- which, apparently, it is.

 

[saucercrab]

Which is why I think it would not if you cast ER after FF. ER increases your base land speed, which is what FF checks- is there some rule somewhere differentiating between base land speed and really really base land speed?

ER gives an enhancement bonus to your base land speed. That & ER's does-not-work-with-other-movements clause are good enough for me; it just doesn't jibe with me that magically improving land movement should increase flying movement when the spell mentions not working on other modes. But, FF is a bit too vague in its description. :shrugs:
(And as Raspen mentioned, FF doesn't say base land speed, it just says land speed; possibly semantics.)

I take a light tone not to mock your point- I can see it from that side, since ER spells it out specifically. The order of operations possibilities made me consider it an arguable issue- which, apparently, it is.

Don't worry, I get mocked all the time.

 

[Dheran]

Fell Flight is based upon your base land speed. Expeditious Retreat increases your base land speed by 30'. As long as you activated Fell Flight after you cast Expeditious Retreat, would you fly faster? Expeditious Retreat specifically says it doesn't increase fly speeds, but it's not- Fell Flight is simply being based on a different base land speed.

The rule for Fell Flight says that you base your flying speed on your land speed. The rule for Expeditious Retreat says you enhance your land speed, except

There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly, or swim.

Because Expeditious Retreat specifically says it can't have any effect on other modes of movement, it doesn't change your Fell Flight speed. The fact that your fly speed is normally computed from your land speed is irrelevant, because flying is still a different mode of movement.

Sorry, Quidam. You'll need to use a spell like Haste that allows an increase in other movement modes. Expeditious Retreat and Longstrider are enhancements to land movement only; that's part of why they're such cheap (i.e., low-level) spells.