Fell Weaken/Fell Drain: your thoughts

[SteveC]

Hey everyone,
I am the "rules advisor" for a D&D campaign that should be starting up again soon. One of the players in the game has two feats he wants to take for his next character: fell weaken and fell drain. It looks like both of these feats are from the book of the dead, which I don't have, so I offer this question to you fellow ENWorlders: what do you think about 'em? Should they stay or go.

From what I've been told, here's what they do:

Fell Weaken- If you inflict damage with a spell the creature(s) hit suffer -4 str for 1 minute. Strength penalties from fell weakening do not stack. Metamagic adjustment 1 level

Fell Drain- If you inflict damage with a spell the creature(s) hit suffer 1 negative energy level if living. Negative energy loss does stack and if a subject has as many negative energy levels as HD it dies.The negative level disappears (without requiring a fortitude save) after a number of hours equal to caster level (max 15). Metamagic adjustment 2 levels.

So what do you think?

--Steve

 

[Kem]

To start, I love both feats as they are nice and different from other metamagic feats.

Fell Weaken isn't that bad at +1 level adjustment. Ray of Enfeeblement is a level 1 spell that does "about" the same. A +2 might be in order but is this really as good as empower? Oh yeah, if a wizard wants it don't worry, its much more dangerous in the hands of a sorc. Or a warmage *shudder*

Fel Drain on the other hand. Magic Missile vs. 5 Targets for -5 levels in total. 3rd level slot. No save Auto-Hit. Easily a canidate for +3 land. Extremely potent for a sorc/warmage. Makes Enervate look like a childs toy. Fireball 5th level. AoE level drain.

Both are very good feats, both have rather limiting drawbacks (they are metamagic) but the idea of what they do is very good. I'd work out with the player what a better LA on those would be. Fel Weaken seems good at +1, and doesn't do more then a spell a single level higher would be expected to do. Fel Drain on the other hand is a very potent feat, at +2 its saying "Me or Empower" at +3 its "I'm better then Empower" which I personly think it is.

Also to keep in mind is that Fel Weaken I wouldn't bother using at +2 but fel drain would still be a possibility at +3. Thats still a AoE drain life at level 5 (Snilloc's Snowball/Flaming Sphere).

 

[SteveC]

To start, I love both feats as they are nice and different from other metamagic feats.

Fel Drain on the other hand. Magic Missile vs. 5 Targets for -5 levels in total. 3rd level slot. No save Auto-Hit. Easily a canidate for +3 land. Extremely potent for a sorc/warmage. Makes Enervate look like a childs toy. Fireball 5th level. AoE level drain.

Both are very good feats, both have rather limiting drawbacks (they are metamagic) but the idea of what they do is very good. I'd work out with the player what a better LA on those would be. Fel Weaken seems good at +1, and doesn't do more then a spell a single level higher would be expected to do. Fel Drain on the other hand is a very potent feat, at +2 its saying "Me or Empower" at +3 its "I'm better then Empower" which I personly think it is.

Also to keep in mind is that Fel Weaken I wouldn't bother using at +2 but fel drain would still be a possibility at +3. Thats still a AoE drain life at level 5 (Snilloc's Snowball/Flaming Sphere).

Interesting. From my reading the feat, you can't cause more than one negative level per spell, so if you hit a target with 5 magic missiles, you'd still only cause 1 negative level. Does that make sense?

From what you wrote it seems like a +3 level adjustment would make sense, which is kind of what I was thinking. Thanks for your thoughts!

--Steve

 

[Darkness]

From my reading the feat, you can't cause more than one negative level per spell

Of course, you can cause negative levels to multiple targets in any case, with a Fell Drain fireball or some such.

 

[Diirk]

You know an empowered Ray of Enfeeblement (CL 10) followed by a fel weaken magic missile is going to leave someone with -16.5 str on average, up to -20 on a good roll... ouch ! Does Fel Weaken have that text about not reducing str below 1 ?

 

[SteveC]

Of course, you can cause negative levels to multiple targets in any case, with a Fell Drain fireball or some such.

Right...so all the targets would get a negative level, but you couldn't get more than one negative level per target per spell, then? For example, you could magic missile 5 targets with a magic missile at 9th level and they'd all lose a single level. If you shoot one target with 5 missiles they still lose only one level. That's how I interpret it anyway...

--Steve

 

[ARandomGod]

Right...so all the targets would get a negative level, but you couldn't get more than one negative level per target per spell, then? For example, you could magic missile 5 targets with a magic missile at 9th level and they'd all lose a single level. If you shoot one target with 5 missiles they still lose only one level. That's how I interpret it anyway...

--Steve

That's how I'd interpret it too. And an incredibly nice feat that would be, even at +3. I don't have this Book of the Dead either...

Is it 3.5 or 3.0?
Anything else of interest to note about the feats?

 

[SteveC]

That's how I'd interpret it too. And an incredibly nice feat that would be, even at +3. I don't have this Book of the Dead either...

Is it 3.5 or 3.0?
Anything else of interest to note about the feats?

The feats are for 3.5. I don't think they're too complicated, my initial problem was that a character could use fell drain in conjunction with a ray of frost to kill a first level target it hits with no save. This would only take a second level spell slot to accomplish, so I think I'd feel a bit better with a +3 level adjustment.

--Steve

 

[ARandomGod]

The feats are for 3.5. I don't think they're too complicated, my initial problem was that a character could use fell drain in conjunction with a ray of frost to kill a first level target it hits with no save. This would only take a second level spell slot to accomplish, so I think I'd feel a bit better with a +3 level adjustment.

--Steve

OMG. It indeed could. Sweet and scarey.

 

[ThoughtfulOwl]

The feats are for 3.5. I don't think they're too complicated, my initial problem was that a character could use fell drain in conjunction with a ray of frost to kill a first level target it hits with no save. This would only take a second level spell slot to accomplish, so I think I'd feel a bit better with a +3 level adjustment.

--Steve

You must be at least a third level character, however; for the same level, a single unmodified scorching ray will do the same against almost any 1st level target, without you having to invest in a feat; and for a 1st level slot color spray is much more of an encounter killer anyway.