Zhaleskra
Adventurer
From what I can tell this person his bigger problems than cheating at games. If he threatens anyone in your group again, call the police.
Fellow player fudging rolls
- Thread starter The_Hanged_Man
- Start date
From what I can tell this person his bigger problems than cheating at games. If he threatens anyone in your group again, call the police.
Something else we haven't considered: for DMs, we all need to look in the mirror a bit if someone is cheating. Perhaps you are over-using the "Rule Zero" or fudging too many dice rolls yourself. So much so that the players feel they are in a no-win situation and are just throwing things out there so they can play the "hero" they wanted to play when they sat down at the table.
Just a thought.
As for why people are so non-confrontational - for me, it's a game. I'm there to have fun and getting in someone's face isn't my idea of fun. Ive gotten in people's faces to stop personal attacks and thew like that were ruining the game. But for "sneaky" people it some times requires a sideways approach.
I'm in my mid-30s and on the rare occassion I see someone in my age group at a table consistently cheating at DnD, I find it more than a bit pathetic. It just tells me there's got to be something else wrong with that individual and whatever I say has about zero chances of correcting their behavior.
Plus, if you just immediately bust off calling people out and you come to find you can't really prove it, it just alienates people (including those that aren't cheating...I almost did that with my last group) So there may be some sneakiness required to sort of corner the cheater and expose them to the group. People my age that are cooking dice rolls generally have a pretty good scam going cause they've been doing it for a while and are sneaky enough about it that it may not be common knowledge at the table.
Just a thought.
As for why people are so non-confrontational - for me, it's a game. I'm there to have fun and getting in someone's face isn't my idea of fun. Ive gotten in people's faces to stop personal attacks and thew like that were ruining the game. But for "sneaky" people it some times requires a sideways approach.
I'm in my mid-30s and on the rare occassion I see someone in my age group at a table consistently cheating at DnD, I find it more than a bit pathetic. It just tells me there's got to be something else wrong with that individual and whatever I say has about zero chances of correcting their behavior.
Plus, if you just immediately bust off calling people out and you come to find you can't really prove it, it just alienates people (including those that aren't cheating...I almost did that with my last group) So there may be some sneakiness required to sort of corner the cheater and expose them to the group. People my age that are cooking dice rolls generally have a pretty good scam going cause they've been doing it for a while and are sneaky enough about it that it may not be common knowledge at the table.
kitsune9
Adventurer
This was years ago when I used to live in KY. I had stopped associating with that guy and his and even stopped playing with my roommate (for different reasons). My current group is no where like this guy or some of the other horror players that many of gamers have had the misfortune of meeting.
FoxWander
Adventurer
I'm curious to see how the OP's steps to fix the problem work out at the table, so be sure to post a follow-up Hanged Man.
On whether to be confrontational about cheating or not, I'd say it really depends on the personality of the cheater and of the group as a whole. As others have pointed out, it may not be worth the tension and discomfort to the group as a whole to simply call them out at the table. And certainly kitsune9's situation could have gone quite badly. But other groups or accused cheaters may simply laugh it off, hopefully do the right thing, and quickly move on.
We had a fudger (cheater just sounds too harsh for this guy- mainly because his inflated dice rolls STILL didn't make his characters very effective) in our group. He was called on it (subtly) by the guy sitting next to him and later table rules were established about open die rolls. Shortly thereafter that player found an excuse to leave our group. It was a pretty flimsy excuse so I can only guess that he just didn't like having to play honestly.
My advice for how to approach a cheater would be a middle road on the confrontational scale. While sitting next to the cheater, place a notepad between the two of you. Whenever you catch him cheating write down his actual die roll and then the number he reported next to it. Write small enough that he can read it but the rest of the table can't. Also, make absolutely no comment- just write down the numbers and do it every time he cheats. If he doesn't catch the hint make a point of also writing down your own die rolls as well as the matching number that you said you rolled. Maybe make a point of picking up your pen in anticipation of his rolls. If you're feeling cute, write down rolls he reports honestly as well and put a smiley face next to them
, and then a sad face next to his cheat results 
. Whatever- it depends on the dynamic between the two of you. But regardless, he should get the hint very quickly and either stop or move to sit next to someone else. 
On whether to be confrontational about cheating or not, I'd say it really depends on the personality of the cheater and of the group as a whole. As others have pointed out, it may not be worth the tension and discomfort to the group as a whole to simply call them out at the table. And certainly kitsune9's situation could have gone quite badly. But other groups or accused cheaters may simply laugh it off, hopefully do the right thing, and quickly move on.
We had a fudger (cheater just sounds too harsh for this guy- mainly because his inflated dice rolls STILL didn't make his characters very effective) in our group. He was called on it (subtly) by the guy sitting next to him and later table rules were established about open die rolls. Shortly thereafter that player found an excuse to leave our group. It was a pretty flimsy excuse so I can only guess that he just didn't like having to play honestly.
My advice for how to approach a cheater would be a middle road on the confrontational scale. While sitting next to the cheater, place a notepad between the two of you. Whenever you catch him cheating write down his actual die roll and then the number he reported next to it. Write small enough that he can read it but the rest of the table can't. Also, make absolutely no comment- just write down the numbers and do it every time he cheats. If he doesn't catch the hint make a point of also writing down your own die rolls as well as the matching number that you said you rolled. Maybe make a point of picking up your pen in anticipation of his rolls. If you're feeling cute, write down rolls he reports honestly as well and put a smiley face next to them
, and then a sad face next to his cheat results . Whatever- it depends on the dynamic between the two of you. But regardless, he should get the hint very quickly and either stop or move to sit next to someone else. 
catsclaw227
First Post
I'm curious to see how the OP's steps to fix the problem work out at the table, so be sure to post a follow-up Hanged Man.
On whether to be confrontational about cheating or not, I'd say it really depends on the personality of the cheater and of the group as a whole. As others have pointed out, it may not be worth the tension and discomfort to the group as a whole to simply call them out at the table. And certainly kitsune9's situation could have gone quite badly. But other groups or accused cheaters may simply laugh it off, hopefully do the right thing, and quickly move on.
We had a fudger (cheater just sounds too harsh for this guy- mainly because his inflated dice rolls STILL didn't make his characters very effective) in our group. He was called on it (subtly) by the guy sitting next to him and later table rules were established about open die rolls. Shortly thereafter that player found an excuse to leave our group. It was a pretty flimsy excuse so I can only guess that he just didn't like having to play honestly.
My advice for how to approach a cheater would be a middle road on the confrontational scale. While sitting next to the cheater, place a notepad between the two of you. Whenever you catch him cheating write down his actual die roll and then the number he reported next to it. Write small enough that he can read it but the rest of the table can't. Also, make absolutely no comment- just write down the numbers and do it every time he cheats. If he doesn't catch the hint make a point of also writing down your own die rolls as well as the matching number that you said you rolled. Maybe make a point of picking up your pen in anticipation of his rolls. If you're feeling cute, write down rolls he reports honestly as well and put a smiley face next to them
You had me for the first half of your post, but the last paragraph, was like reading about how to administer discipline to a group of 6yr olds learning how to play sorry or monopoly.
FoxWander
Adventurer
Just trying to offer a different path between standing up and yelling "CHEATER!" in the middle of the game or anonymous notes and pushing someone else to deal with the problem. Granted drawing faces next to the numbers might be the height of silliness (although they seem to work alright in internet forums) but it also might be just the thing to defuse a blow-up from someone who, for all you know, could be a closet psychopath. Silliness aside, simply acknowledging between the two of you that you are well aware of his cheating (and also providing a record that could be handed to the DM) is a way of dealing with the situation openly but provides a way for the cheater to save face.
And besides, we're talking about someone who cheats at a casual, non-competitive game among supposed friends- if that's not a 6yr old mentality I don't know what is.
anest1s
First Post
Just trying to offer a different path between standing up and yelling "CHEATER!" in the middle of the game or anonymous notes and pushing someone else to deal with the problem. Granted drawing faces next to the numbers might be the height of silliness (although they seem to work alright in internet forums) but it also might be just the thing to defuse a blow-up from someone who, for all you know, could be a closet psychopath. Silliness aside, simply acknowledging between the two of you that you are well aware of his cheating (and also providing a record that could be handed to the DM) is a way of dealing with the situation openly but provides a way for the cheater to save face.
And besides, we're talking about someone who cheats at a casual, non-competitive game among supposed friends- if that's not a 6yr old mentality I don't know what is.
Rofl if I cheated and someone did this to me, I would laugh at them for the rest of their lives
And the smilies would make me think that they will draw a knife while smiling and start stabbing me for cheating -horror movie like- painting their dice with my blood afterwards
FoxWander
Adventurer
Rofl if I cheated and someone did this to me, I would laugh at them for the rest of their lives
And the smilies would make me think that they will draw a knife while smiling and start stabbing me for cheating -horror movie like- painting their dice with my blood afterwards
And you say this while following each of your sentences with a smiley...
*backs away slowly*
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