Fellowship of the Witching Hour OOC Thread (Full)

[Dire Lemming]

I'm sorry that I caused you all so much grief, that was not my intention. All I wanted was to know something about Lucean's character's usual behavior so that I could better determine what Adam's reaction would be to his current behavior. I don't know how else to explain it. I don't want to leave the game as a quite enjoy it and don't want to throw away all the work I've invested in developing my character, but if you think that's the only way you can continue to enjoy the game then I just ask that you explain to me what I actually did wrong and I'll leave without a fuss.

 

[kookalouris]

Some thoughts...

As I understand it, as I write this, it is either DL's or Lucean's IC-post so I will hold off on IC. In any case, Sam is very interested in the interplay between Cara and the Scoobies and won't monopolize the conversation.

Thank you, David, for seeing the clumsy concern in my previous post this thread.

All I hoped to achieve was that all involved take a second look at posts, theirs and others, before acting or re-acting. Which is not the same thing as saying y'all weren't anyway. Beyond that, I am enjoying the game immensely.

You are right by definition, David. This is your 'house' and we are guests within it. You are putting forth many times the work we are just by being GM. Also, generally if a GM's decisions are unpopular, more than one player will be 'locking horns' with the Keeper.

With all that, I will stand aside and let the chips fall where they may. So far, I hope to play Sam throughout the game, or until she is eaten, whichever comes first.

Feedback is always welcome,

Gerry

 

[greenstar]

No no he doesn't want you to leave.

 

[Dire Lemming]

What does he want then?

 

[Dlsharrock]

I'm sorry that I caused you all so much grief, that was not my intention. All I wanted was to know something about Lucean's character's usual behavior so that I could better determine what Adam's reaction would be to his current behavior *snip* then I just ask that you explain to me what I actually did wrong and I'll leave without a fuss.

Firstly, I would urge you to read my previous messages in full at least once more. I've been pretty clear and edited out my usual waffle. There really is no ambiguity. Secondly, throughout this message, assume a calm and conversive tone.

For the rest, I can only try to put it more simply.

I'm unhappy with the OOC comment made in game. That's issue number one.

Your flame responses are issue number two, and *that's* prompting me to consider asking you to leave, *not* issue number one.

The rest entails repeating myself, but if it helps to clarify things, I'll do so.

Is Phillip usually this rude?

This is a question. Questions return answers and therefore information. It could feasibly be interpreted as you trying to establish what Adam knows about Philip. I would have been willing to consider that possibility. But then there's this:

I mean sure he was right this time but we would have figured it out pretty soon if she was willing to admit it so easily.

This is a comment. Comments don't return answers, and so they are not provided in order to learn information, only to give information. Furthermore, in context (ie, the question and comment combined with the nature of the situation being discussed), this isn't just a comment, it's a criticism, and coming on the heels of the question, makes the question part of the criticism, not seperate from it.

Then there was this earlier comment:

Hey Luc, she likely learned about it the same way Ara and Phil probably did. From the ads.

This supports my assumption that you think it's appropriate to give another player OOC suggestions or criticism about how they should roleplay their character.

Just to be certain that I wasn't misinterpreting things, I asked my tabletop group, some friends from a Pbem I'm running, and my girlfriend to take a look. That's eleven people. All agree there's no other way to interpret your comments but as an inappropriate criticism of another player's PC and that the tone is confrontational.

More worrying to me, several have suggested that your behaviour thus far in the game is tantamount to trolling. I don't know if I agree with that, but your flaming and inappropriate OOC comments, forcing me to uphold pretty basic level etiquette and roleplay issues, have certainly held back the game by several days.

You ask what I want. I *request* two things:

For you to relax and enjoy the game, without worrying about other player's portrayals of their characters.

If another PC does something that infringes on what you perceive to be your game, or upsets you, discern between OOC and IC appropriately please. Players are actors, not represented by the characters they play and if a PC's behaviour seems bewildering, it may be because the player's character is acting according to information you don't have, or that your PC doesn't have. Address the character with your character. Don't address the player about the character's actions. If you want to understand what Adam would know about another PC, use measured questions and, I would advise further, use "with regard to what Adam knows about ***" or "Would Adam know that *** often reacts like this". Common sense and common courtesy should be the rule of thumb. Read what you write before you submit.

Secondly I ask you to desist in responding with aggression and hostility to OOC comments, even if you interpret them as personal attacks (which they are not). If something upsets you, do what I do: read it, walk away and simmer. Let yourself calm down. Go back later. Read it again and formulate a measured answer without resorting to bad language or accusations of personal attacks (focus on the issue, not your pride, as someone smarter than I once wrote). Return and post the answer, reading through several times to ensure you haven't written anything inflammatory. In all cases assume the other person is simply attempting to put across a valid point of view rather than making a pointless personal attack on you.

I really cannot emphasise enough that if you respond one more time to an OOC comment with a flame response, I'll ask you to leave the game. If there's a problem between players or between player and keeper it *must* be resolved with calm, measured and logical debate.

That's basically all I ask.

 

[Dlsharrock]

Kook - it's currently Dire Lemming's turn.

 

[Dire Lemming]

That third quote was just a pseudo in character aside to explain why I was asking the question in the second quote. The fourth quote was just to answer Phillip's question since I couldn't post in character until after you already had and it would make things awkward anyway if Adam said something like "She probably learned about it the same way you and Arabella did. The Ads we posted."

Honestly, I'd like to see what Lucean has to say about all this. He hasn't said a thing about it, and he's the one who I directed the posts at in the first place.

 

[Dlsharrock]

That third quote was just a pseudo in character aside

I don't know what a 'pseudo in character aside' is.

To my mind it was an OOC comment directed at Lucean. In-character comments should be made in-character. Out of character comments should be made out of character. The guidelines clearly state you should mark OOC comments OOC so there's no misunderstanding. There is no PICA option.

I can't find any evidence of an OOC question from Lucean concerning how Cara found out about the group. None of which explains why you attempted to discern IC details using a critical comment later in the game, so my opinion remains unchanged.

EDIT: I forgot to comment on this part, sorry:

it would make things awkward anyway if Adam said something like "She probably learned about it the same way you and Arabella did. The Ads we posted."

Actually I disagree. I think it would have been most acceptable. Far more appropriate than posting an OOC comment to the player. But again, this merely suggests to me that you're having difficulting defining the difference between what the character thinks and what the player thinks. The two are mutually exclusive, which is the whole point of IC and OOC.

Honestly, I'd like to see what Lucean has to say about all this. He hasn't said a thing about it, and he's the one who I directed the posts at in the first place.

I've politely advised Lucean against commenting, precisely because of his proximity to the issue. If you'd like to rephrase your question to him in the IC thread when/if we've resolved this, Dire Lemming, I encourage you to do so in a way that makes your intentions clearer so that you have a better understanding of what Adam knows about Philip's personality.

The fact remains, *I*, as moderator of this game, have taken issue with the comments, not Lucean. Effectively, it has nothing to do with him and he shouldn't feel obliged in any way shape or form to get involved if he doesn't want to.

Crucially: we would be having the same discussion had you directed your comment at greenstar or Kookalouris. Indeed I'd have taken issue with any player who made the comment in question.

That said, if Lucean feels strongly about commenting, I certainly won't censor him from doing so, particularly as Kookalouris and greenstar have both commented. Though nothing Lucean says will change my standpoint, especially considering I have already sought eleven objective opinions.

More relevantly, you haven't explained how I have misinterpreted your comments, nor (more importantly AFAIC) agreed to either of my requests. My assumption can only be that you have no interest in a resolution.

 

[Dlsharrock]

Really, this could go on indefinitely and, tbh, it's becoming more than tedious. I'd rather get back to the game and, though I don't presume to speak on anyone's behalf, I think most players would rather do the same.

So to draw a line under the whole thing:

Dire Lemming, you asked what it is that I want:

I've highlight what I request from you in post 145 of this thread.

Please indicate in your next post that you agree with both these requests so that we can get on with the game, or don't. However, if you don't agree with them, I see no way we can resolve this in a satisfactory manner and I'm going to have to ask you to leave the game. I can't stress enough that this isn't my preference, but neither can I stress enough that I don't intend to spend any further energy debating the issue or defining what, to me, are basic roleplaying considerations.

 

[Dire Lemming]

Well I don't know what to say. I've been doing what you suggested in post 145 all along and you still have a problem with me. Even if I were to tell you you're right and I'm wrong, and that I'll do whatever you say I really don't think I can because I just don't know what you're talking about.

All I wanted to do was play the game and have fun, and hopefully help everyone else have fun, but if you can't accept me the way I am then we've got an unresolvable problem which will keep coming up no matter how many times we brush it under a rug.

I really enjoyed playing with you guys while it lasted, especially developing Sam and Adam's relationship(thanks kook). Still, I'm sure you'll have much more fun without me.

Dlsharrock, I hope someday you'll learn to loosen up.