Feyswarm Staff Clarification?

[Geraldv]

My druid player was very pleased to find a Feyswarm staff during our last adventure, but I feel like her excitement may be a bit premature, specifically as relates to the Daily power:

Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when an attack made with this implement hits. Magical stinging insects daze the target until the end of your next turn.

She believes that this should allow her to daze all the targets of her area attacks that she hits. For example, she activates the Daily power after an attack made with this implement (Chill Wind) hits, say three targets, and the insects would daze the targets that were hit until the end of her next turn.

Can someone please clarify? Thanks!

 

[CCH_LLC]

Why wouldn't it? If she rolls to hit a target and succeeds with that roll and hit's that target, then the targets ought to be dazed unless I am missing something.

 

[Geraldv]

Mass Dazing just seems like a ridiculously strong power on a level 4 staff. Am I worrying too much here?

 

[BobTheNob]

Mass Dazing just seems like a ridiculously strong power on a level 4 staff. Am I worrying too much here?

Yes, that is powerful. But think about it this way...it is a daily power. Its not like she gets to spam it or anything.

One of the things that really ironed out our group in this regard was locking down on "spam resting" which basically means extended resting after every encounter. Yes, my party did it, and at first I didnt mind, but I discovered it is a highly game destructive practice.

Just ensure that the party extended rests only every 4-6 encounters (I do it via the "safe zone" mechanic : i.e. part of game challenge is finding safe zones to rest in) and suddenly this effect is potent, yet high infrequent

 

[Ainamacar]

I disagree with the interpretations above. To hit a creature you must roll successfully against its defenses, and this is almost always done individually against each target. Thus, each target is hit (or not hit) individually, and the power is activated against just a single creature. The fact the staff's power says "the target" instead of "each target" or the like also suggests this is the normal intent. That is also why some powers can have effects if you "hit at least one target."

Back in the early days of 4e there was errata for reliable powers for a similar reason. It originally read "If you miss when using a reliable power, you don't expend the use of that power." Well, a power that hits 6/7 targets still misses the last one, and so the rule didn't have its intended effect. Thus it was changed to "If a creature misses every target when using a reliable power, the use of that power isn’t expended." The same issue is at play, hitting and missing is determined individually for each target.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Forget interpreting the rules. Tell her you're concerned that stunning multiple targets may be overpowered, but you're willing to give it a try. If you find that it allows her to absolutely dominate enemies, its overpowered. If not, let her keep it. As long as you've expressed your reservations up front there is no reason not to let her try it out.

 

[RangerWickett]

My reading of it is that she can use the daily power to stun one enemy that she hits with a power. "Magical stinging insects daze the target until the end of your next turn." That means the target you hit who triggered the item's power.

4e is usually worded pretty precisely. If they wanted the power to affect more people, it would've been something like, "Magical stinging insects daze each target hit by the power until the end of your next turn."

 

[Geraldv]

4e is usually worded pretty precisely. If they wanted the power to affect more people, it would've been something like, "Magical stinging insects daze each target hit by the power until the end of your next turn."

I think what I'm getting at is that the wording didn't take powers that target multiple creatures into account. It's not worded clearly, leading to this confusion.

 

[Nork]

It is a daily power. You should always give the player the benefit of the doubt on something like a daily since it is only going to crop up in one out of every four encounters.

If in practice it turns out to be absurdly overpowered, you can explain that to the player and tone it down later.

Players usually get upset and argue when they feel like you are needlessly blocking them or pre-nerfing their abilities because of what might happen.

Players usually understand if you tone down something because you are finding it to be a problem in practice. Note, I said a PROBLEM, not an "ohhh that controller ties my hands behind my back and it makes me so mad as a DM" situation. That is what controllers should be doing. A lot of DMs over-react to controllers.

 

[Pbartender]

I think what I'm getting at is that the wording didn't take powers that target multiple creatures into account.

Sure it did. Consider this...

You fire off a blast that targets "Each creature in blast". Per the rules, you roll a single attack against each target. Now, remember that the staff's power can be used, "when an attack made with this implement hits"...

Did you hit the first target in the blast? No (for the sake of argument), so you move on to the next.

Did you hit the second target? Yes, so as a free action you activate the power and "Magical stinging insects daze the target until the end of your next turn."

Did you hit the third target? Yes, but it doesn't matter because the Feyswarm is a Daily power and you've already used it once today.