[FFE] Encyclopedia of PrCs: More rules errors!

[Iron_Chef]

Just saw Fast Forward's Encyclopedia of Prestige Classes (HC, $24.99), and laughed til I cried when I saw all the blatant, ridiculous rules errors that are so typical of everything Fast Forward does.

Now, I don't have the book in front of me (because I wasn't stupid enough to buy it) but here are a couple doozies to consider before buying this book:

A devilish PrC whose name escapes lists an alignment requirement of chaotic evil, then under "special" states that entry to the PrC "requires a pact with a lawful evil outsider." Hmm, this is such a glaring error it hurts my head just thinking about it. How hard is this to spot? Well, granted, it's easy enough to fix, but sheesh! Any editor should have caught this like a case of SARS.

Next is something really unique among PrCs that seems "perfect" for those pesky adventuring groups we've all been forced to join from time to time (well, just about always, LOL). "The Triad" PrC requires PCs of three different classes each take levels in it, and each member grants some class-related bonuses to the other members of the group, plus everybody in the Triad gets a +15 bump to their earned XP. Sounds cool, right? Until you realize that there is no mention of whether spellcasting classes gain spelcaster levels in their existing class while taking levels of Triad. If they don't, they get royally screwed, while non-spellcasters gain cool stuff like crazy! Also, what if you have more than three members in your group who want to join? No can do, and you can't have more than one character from each class in the Triad, to prevent multiple bonus stacking, I guess. What a waste. This one got my juices flowing only to let me down in the end.

Anyway, the book is needlessly hardcover as is typical of FFE just so they can jack up the price and jack you out of your hard-earned dough with another sloppily put together book of half-baked ideas.

Ooh! Another laugh riot error is in FFE's Encyclopedia of Demons & Devils 2, which has a "demon prince" with 2 pages of in-depth coverage and a whopping 4 HD to its credit. That demon prince ain't gonna last too long in the Abyss, seeing as how it's only got slightly more HP than your average dretch, LOL!

When will Jim Ward get his act together and stop putting out rules error riddled crap? He has some talented, creative writers working for him, but nobody seems to have a solid grasp of how 3e works, which is of paramount importance if the books are going to be useful to gamers. IMO, Jim's hysterical, delusional bad attitude doesn't help much, either. I'm certainly not buying any of FFE's books until they start putting out rules-solid products. Personally, I don't care about Jim's rotten attitude; I'd buy quaity stuff from the biggest jerk in the world as long as it was cool stuff. It's not like I have to hang out with him to use his products, LOL. Anyway, that's my rant for the day.

PS: This is about Fast Forward (FFE), not Fantasy Flight Games (FFG). FFG kicks ass and puts out some of the very best 3e books, period.

 

[Grazzt]

Until you realize that there is no mention of whether spellcasting classes gain spelcaster levels in their existing class while taking levels of Triad.

While I am not a fan of anything FFE has done (I have seen and read many of their products only to be disappointed every time), I think this is pretty uh...obvious. Like most other prestige classes (say the cavalier for example or whatever), if it doesnt have the "+1 level of existing spellcaster class" then chances are good you don't get to advance your spellcasting ability. Easy enough. Doesnt mean this is an error. Just no point in telling peeps that as they should already know it (with the plethora of PrC already out there that offer no spellcasting advancement). And not all PrC are gonna advance or allow advancement of spellcasting ability.

If they don't, they get royally screwed, while non-spellcasters gain cool stuff like crazy!

Not all PrC will be 100% attractive to all classes. That is how PrC work (or at least how they originally did before the "rules" changed). If its not attractive, don't take it. If a spellcaster wants to take levels in a particular PrC to gain whatever it is he gains, then he must sacrifice his spellcasting ability sometimes in order to do so.

Also, what if you have more than three members in your group who want to join? No can do, and you can't have more than one character from each class in the Triad...

Couldn't call it a "Triad" if it allowed more than three characters to join it.


I dont consider the above rules errors, nor the "chaotic evil, lawful evil" thing ya mentioned (sounds more like a typo). As for the 4 HD demon prince...again, not a rules error. I agree that a 4 HD demon prince wouldnt last long and is a bit weird, but if that's how it was designed, that's how it was designed....and its not a rules error (unless its feats, skill points, DCs, saves, etc.. are wrong).

Not defending FFE (as I said, I havent been impressed really with anything they have done and Ward's tirade a few weeks ago didnt score high with me), but I just dont see any of the above as rules errors. Seems more like personal preference ("this is how I wouldve done it" or "this is how it should have been done.")

Just me though.

 

[caudor]

Why attack FFE and Jim Ward? I don't understand. There is nothing to be gained but hard feelings.

We exist as a community that supports its members (even when we disagree over various topics). Most importantly, we come here to share our interest and pursue fun in the roleplaying hobby.

Not everyone that pursues publishing will at first suceed. Some that have suceeded will stumble now and then.

Please place aside your anst, sell the book on eBay, relax, and enjoy this place. The fun factor gets lost when we attack others...even if there is good cause.

 

[Morrus]

I think that Triad idea sounds pretty cool, actually. I'd love to have a group of players take something like that. Doesn't sound ideal for spellcasters, but then there are a lot of classes which are more beneficial to some classes than to others; I agree that it sounds like it would have been cooler had provision for spellcasters been included, but I certainly don't view it as an "error". It's just not *quite* the PrC I'd personally like it to be. But then, I can't think of any PrCs which are exactly as I'd like them. Or core classes for that matter...

Anyway, to move on to more "moderatorly" issues... (if there were such a word as "moderatorly", is that how you'd spell it?) - it's fine to criticise the book, but using phrases like "rules error riddled crap" makes your post sound more like a rant than a reasoned look at the book, as well as being far more hostile than we're accustomed to in these parts.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I guess I jumped on the Jim Ward bashing bandwagon a bit too late. Seemed like everybody was badmouthing him him awhile ago after his "900 Words" rant, not just personally for his tirade against psion and the other reviewers, but for his rules error riddled products. I don't think my post was out of line in light of this, but what the heck... maybe I was too harsh. Sorry if my post offended anyone.

I couldn't provide more specific examples because I don't own any FFE books. Why would I, when they are so badly reviewed, needlessly hardcover and expensive, and I've personally checked them all out at the store myself and passed on every single one as being unsuitable?

My basic point is this: I don't like buying books riddled with rules errors or typos, and that's why I avoid AEG's "one word" books (except MERCENARY) and everything from FFE. I consider such books basically "crap" (as in "stuff I won't buy") because they are needlessly slopped together, making their usefulness to me questionable at best, even if there are some good ideas in them here and there. If a product is substandard, it's "crap" to me, and I have to call it how I see it.

PS: I did say the Triad sounded cool, but it falls apart under closer scrutiny. Needs tweaking or there's no way the 10 Level PrC would ever be taken by spellcasters (the ones who provide the biggest bump to the other Triad members).