Fiddling with haste

[hong]

Seeing as how it's an uber-spell at the moment, I was thinking of the following changes:


[stat block stays the same]

Haste grants its target the following benefits:
- +4 haste bonus to attack rolls
- +4 haste bonus to AC
- an extra move-equivalent action per round (not a partial action)

In addition, spellcasting times are reduced by one step. A spell that has a 1-action casting time becomes a free action to cast. A spell that has a full-round casting time (or requires a full-round action to cast, like a sorcerer or bard using metamagic) now becomes a standard action. A spell that has a casting time longer than one round has its casting time reduced by one round. You may cast only one such hasted spell per round. This is in addition to the existing limit of one quickened spell per round.

Comments?

 

[Crothian]

So, you can still only cast once around, it's just as a free action or can you cast one as the free action and one as a standard action?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Interesting--this seems to be the opposite of the usual haste nerf that gets bandied about. Wizards and sorcerors can still effectively cast two spells per round (one hasted to a free action and one normal one) and have two move equivalent actions left to boot.

On the other hand fighters and rogues can no longer make an extra attack--they can only move and then make a full attack.

I'm not sure that this is a really effective way to change haste. If I wanted to nerf it, I'd try making it 4th level first.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I was considering removing the AC bonus from haste (most people choose it for the extra action anyway). I might increase the level, or disallow it altogether.

Geoff.

 

[hong]

So, you can still only cast once around, it's just as a free action or can you cast one as the free action and one as a standard action?

You can cast one spell per round, only it's a free action instead of a standard action. If you have a quickened spell handy, you can cast that too (ie, haste doesn't count towards the limit of one quickened spell per round).

 

[hong]

I was considering removing the AC bonus from haste (most people choose it for the extra action anyway). I might increase the level, or disallow it altogether.

The AC bonus does make sense, though. If you're moving faster, it should be harder for people to hit you.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I quite like the idea of +4 AC, +4 hit and an extra MEA - so for fighters it allows a move and full attack, which is nifty and very useful, but for wizards or sorcerers they don't suddenly become Engines of Destruction (tm), which is what seems to happen with the current version of the spell which allows spell users to cast twice...

This still is a good spell for casters - extra AC is always good, and the hit bonus would help for those ranged touch attacks. It wouldn't be nearly as much of a "no-brainer" decision as at present though.

Cheers

 

[hong]

I quite like the idea of +4 AC, +4 hit and an extra MEA - so for fighters it allows a move and full attack, which is nifty and very useful, but for wizards or sorcerers they don't suddenly become Engines of Destruction (tm), which is what seems to happen with the current version of the spell which allows spell users to cast twice...

Heh, I think I first floated this idea back in 2000, a few months after 3E's initial release. A lot of people didn't like it, for some reason.

Thinking about it again, reducing the AC bonus to +2 or +3 (and keeping the attack bonus at +4) would make sense. As I said at the time, if you consider a fight between two hasted characters, it should be over faster than a fight between two unhasted characters, even if everything else was kept the same. Thus the attack bonus should outweigh the defense bonus, to simulate the extra attacks that would hit in each unit of time.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I don't know about that - I'd be inclined to keep the haste bonus to hit and to AC exactly the same - since if two hasted people were fighting one another their bonuses would cancel out, which is surely as it should be? The two "duellists" would be seeing each other moving in normal time while everyone around them was moving slowly.

Cheers

 

[hong]

I don't know about that - I'd be inclined to keep the haste bonus to hit and to AC exactly the same - since if two hasted people were fighting one another their bonuses would cancel out, which is surely as it should be? The two "duellists" would be seeing each other moving in normal time while everyone around them was moving slowly.

In terms of the number of blows that are landed, yes, they would be exactly the same. In terms of actual time elapsed from the start to the end of the combat, however, the hasted fight will be over sooner: you're making more attacks per unit time when under the effects of the haste. Hence the attack bonus should be greater than the defense bonus: this way, more hits get landed per combat round, and the combat is over in a fewer number of combat rounds.

I'm thinking +3 haste bonus to AC and Ref saves would be the best bet.