Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Complete thread hijack:
Is the Dragon Archives CD-ROM still available for purchase somewhere? Paizo doesn't seem to have it (or I couldn't find it).

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

No - ebay has copies going for upwards of $200 occasionally. You may find one cheaper by posting a wanted thread in the trading/classified forums here.

Random thoughts:

The Blood War provided a decent plot device for explaining what demons and devils etc... DO with souls, and why they need them!

Hordlings are Evil with Chaotic tendencies

Molydeus, Polydeus! 5 fiends bad!

Just cause Tony D made fiends look cute, doesn't mean they weren't evil. The Yugoloths had the right of it - send their fluffiest and cutest ( but shrewdest ) members of the race to be their front men in the planar community. Right Shemeska?

We really need a new prime race to be the front man worshippers of Demogorgon. Ixitchtachil (sp! ) just don't inspire fear due to their rarity. What alignment are the Taer?

I'm hoping this book ( this is a thread about a book, right? ) has the depth of detail that the Demonomicon of Iggylwiv articles has - with a bit more inegration to tie things together in a cohesive way. It would be a shame to see a straight up monster book. The best part of BoVD IMO was the info on prime worshipper goals and rituals.

All arch fiends and other tough powers ( including Gawds ) should use Epic rules if they MUST be stated out. It's just silly not to use those rules when they are availabel and OGC. I'm sick of seeing Balors and Mariliths with a few class levels more powerful than the stats for Grat'zz and Orcus!

 

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

A bit more playing around with the Dragon archives CD (which, i'm sure you've already done, but just in case):

Thanks for those references. I can see what I'll be reading this evening while my wife is in a class.

 

[BOZ]

glad to be of service.

in the several posts i've made thoughout this thread, i've posted several links and places to look for information, not only just to give clues to Erik and James, but also for other folks to look and go "ooh yeah, i found something in this article/thread that you really need to put in the book!"

 

[Shemeska]

glad to be of service.

in the several posts i've made thoughout this thread, i've posted several links and places to look for information, not only just to give clues to Erik and James, but also for other folks to look and go "ooh yeah, i found something in this article/thread that you really need to put in the book!"

Now here's actually a question, by the time the books hit the amazon and other seller's lists, aren't they typically written and in editing by that point? That was my presumption, hence why I haven't tossed up information like you have BOZ.

 

[BOZ]

At this point there are no beans to spill.

In any event, neither Erik (who does indeed know a LOT about D&D's official demons... probably more so than anyone else in the industry, I'm willing to say) nor I are at liberty to really discuss what will or will not be in this book at this time. We'll both certainly be keeping an eye on these boards for anything remotely connected to demon-talk though (as we have been for the past several months, in fact).

now, of course, this is inference on my part. maybe they have written part one and James' second comment here refers to future volumes. but i have seen other comments elsewhere that suggest it is more like they are finishing up the research stage and moving into writing. i don't know this, because they haven't said and may not.

i don't even know if they are keeping up with this thread anymore since neither has responded since page 1 (too much arguing probably), so if they don't come back to check this thread, i will compile my info in a new thread.

 

[James Jacobs]

I don't even know if they are keeping up with this thread anymore since neither has responded since page 1 (too much arguing probably), so if they don't come back to check this thread, i will compile my info in a new thread.

We're still here, never fear! We're just in observer mode... it's not at a point where we can talk openly about what's going on with the book.

 

[Erik Mona]

We're also still writing, so suggestions are very helpful.

--Erik

 

[Shemeska]

We're also still writing, so suggestions are very helpful.

--Erik

*grin*

So long as the material from 'Hellbound: The Blood War' and 'Faces of Evil: The Fiends' gets used I figure I'll have little to see wanting. Given their influence in 2e and 3e, it'd be hard not to

It would also be interesting to see something picked up from the legends and rumors about Bebelith hives on the Astral, and Bebelith's being astral natives detailed in the 2e Planescape 'Guide to the Astral'. It was a disturbing idea that they might be the guilt of the Abyss made manifest as solid thought on the Astral. Perhaps the rage of the first Abyssal denizens who were displaced and destroyed by the arrival of the first Tanar'ri from the Waste (Tanar'ri and Baatezu as late arrivals on their respective planes, originally having migrated from the Waste or been shepherded from there as detailed in 'Hellbound', 'Faces of Evil', and other sources).

Going off of the slim hints in that book: Imagine a hive of silk stretched between the hunks of a dismembered godisle, the astral corpse of a dead god, the silk spun by Bebeliths from the still living Tanar'ri they abduct from the Abyss. Webs that vibrate from the touch of the Bebeliths dancing upon their lengths, the twitching and screaming of the Tanar'ri bound like so many flies in a spider's web. Imagine the webs themselves spun of manifest agony from those doomed Tanar'ri, that agony taken physical form to vibrate and resonate like the perverse lengths of thousands of bloody, bodiless vocal chords howling their agony out into the silent depths of the silvery void.

That was a damn cool idea, and it's easy to elaborate like that upon it. Would be cool to see more.

Would also be cool to see something picked up regarding the hinted at, but never elaborated upon, ideas in 'Planes of Chaos' about the Varrangoin / Abyssal Bats having once had a civilization of their own that was subsequently obliterated by the Tanar'ri. Perhaps the Varrangoin predated the arrival of the Tanar'ri?

More so, it would be interesting to see anything about the ideas of the layers of the Abyss themselves being semi-sentient. Baator has the Ancient Baatorians, the Waste has the Baernaloths, but there was never any indication of what was in the Abyss before the creation/migration of the Tanar'ri. Perhaps the Abyss itself and its infinite layers were the Abyss versions, who knows.

I'd give more suggestions, but I've gotten more use out of the Yugoloths than the Tanar'ri, and written more about the 'loths in both stories and storyhours. Though I'm using the Abyss much more in my current campaign.

 

[coyote6]

there was never any indication of what was in the Abyss before the creation/migration of the Tanar'ri.

FWIW, Erik had some ideas on this in Armies of the Abyss (and thus the Book of Fiends).

 

[Shemeska]

FWIW, Erik had some ideas on this in Armies of the Abyss (and thus the Book of Fiends).

*nod* The Qlippoth.

Dunno if the name would make sense within DnD proper though, since they, as the inverse of the Sepheroths, are too heavily tied into a mythology that doesn't fit neatly into the planes and outsider races of DnD as it has come to be defined.

They were interesting nonetheless though. Similar in some ways to the Baernaloths, and quite different from the Ancient Baatorians.