Fifth edition should be base-twelve

[Jawsh]

We're all nerds here, right? If you're not familiar with base twelve notation for mathematics, you should do a google search for it.

I'll try and summarize the best I know how.

I presume you're familiar with binary and hexadecimal notation. Binary is notating numbers using only two possible digits: 1 and 0. Hexadecimal is notating numbers with sixteen possible digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, and F.

Binary and hexadecimal are really good systems for working with computers, because binary is the natural language of logic, and it's what you make circuits out of. Hexadecimal is an abbreviated, human scale version of binary. Again, Google if this is going over your head.

However, it has been demonstrated that base twelve is the best notational system for general purposes. Base twelve does fractions more easily than the decimal system, because the number twelve has more convenient divisors than ten does.

12 = 2 x 2 x 3

10 = 5 x 2

In base twelve, it's easier to measure, estimate, and calculate with numbers from the real world, because the system is inherently more precise.

Consider a third. In base ten, a third is 0.333... repeating. Measuring and estimating that quantity can be a pain, because at some point, you have to chop off some part of the fraction. But in base twelve, a third is 0.4. No repeating. You know exactly where to cut.

Using base twelve will make it easier to calculate changes to your character's rate of movement. It will make calculating range increments easier. It will even make dividing up party loot and XP easier.

Plus, base twelve is a little bit quirky and geeky, the perfect crown jewel for a game that's already based on weird things like polyhedral solids and 2-dimensional hexagonal surfaces (okay, we don't know yet if the game will use hexes, and that can be discussed in another thread).

What say you, math geeks?

 

[delericho]

I think this is genius. In all my dodecades of gaming, I'm shocked that nobody has thought to take this obvious step!

 

[Hassassin]

I vote for base 42, for obvious reasons.

 

[trancejeremy]

Traveller sort of used Hexadecimal.

But I think the Sumerians had the right idea with Base 60 - it combines all the advantages of 10 and 12.

Sexagesimal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jawsh]

Perhaps it should be three...

And the Lord spake saying, "First shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three -- no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count; neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch toward thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shares not it."
Amen.

 

[mkill]

What say you, math geeks?

I am appaled at this mundane attempt to make the game easier for muggles. If anything, the game needs to use a prime number as base, so the game is a proper exercise for our advanced brains. I suggest Base 17, just to confuse the peasants with Computer Science degrees.

I also suggest to use an n-dimensional solution space for skill checks. Anything isomorph to a torus is fine.

 

[malkav666]

We're all nerds here, right? If you're not familiar with base twelve notation for mathematics, you should do a google search for it.

I'll try and summarize the best I know how.

I presume you're familiar with binary and hexadecimal notation. Binary is notating numbers using only two possible digits: 1 and 0. Hexadecimal is notating numbers with sixteen possible digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, and F.

Binary and hexadecimal are really good systems for working with computers, because binary is the natural language of logic, and it's what you make circuits out of. Hexadecimal is an abbreviated, human scale version of binary. Again, Google if this is going over your head.

However, it has been demonstrated that base twelve is the best notational system for general purposes. Base twelve does fractions more easily than the decimal system, because the number twelve has more convenient divisors than ten does.

12 = 2 x 2 x 3

10 = 5 x 2

In base twelve, it's easier to measure, estimate, and calculate with numbers from the real world, because the system is inherently more precise.

Consider a third. In base ten, a third is 0.333... repeating. Measuring and estimating that quantity can be a pain, because at some point, you have to chop off some part of the fraction. But in base twelve, a third is 0.4. No repeating. You know exactly where to cut.

Using base twelve will make it easier to calculate changes to your character's rate of movement. It will make calculating range increments easier. It will even make dividing up party loot and XP easier.

Plus, base twelve is a little bit quirky and geeky, the perfect crown jewel for a game that's already based on weird things like polyhedral solids and 2-dimensional hexagonal surfaces (okay, we don't know yet if the game will use hexes, and that can be discussed in another thread).

What say you, math geeks?

Is this just a ploy to finally use all of those 12 sided dice that have been collecting dust in your dice holding apparatus all these years? Well it wont work! The die will need to have an A and a B on them.

On a serious note as a side job, I teach network infrastructure and security for one of the colleges on my turf. And I will offer this:

When teaching binary or hexadecimal it is usually very difficult to get the students to think in those number systems. Its always very funny to me (not really laughing at my students so much as the situation)when teaching the entry level courses and we get into ipv4 subnetting for the first time and we break down dotted decimal format into binary to look at classless subnetting. To see grown individuals struggling to count to 2 and make simple Boolean comparisons between very small numbers makes my inner geek rage with happy. It sometimes takes them hours to get it. And you can tell when it clicks too. The human facial expression range for a moment of understanding and comprehension is almost universally the same. But in their defense, they have been taught that the number 2 comes after the number one their whole lives. Your brain will fight you when you try to change the fundamentals of its logic. These are not stupid folks in my classes (well not the great many of them at least, sometimes I get the person that all of the warning signs strewn about our world were made specifically for), they have just built a system in their minds for numeric significance. If you have been taught that 1+1=2 your whole life then you have to actually convince your brain that 1+1=10 can also be true or no matter how simple it is your brain just will not accept it.

Now I will admit I have an easier time teaching hexadecimal, but I honestly think thats just because all of the decimal numeric characters are present in its expression. I think you would have a much harder time teaching the game to new folks if it used a duodecimal system, as you would also have to teach them to count and do basic arithmetic in addition to the rules of the game (which all involve counting and minor math operations). I also imagine situations where dividing treasure could be humorous: "ok we got a total of 24B28 gold pieces after selling everything and putting a share in the party fund. Ok so that will be be 6B4 for each of you. Please add it to your sheets"

But its a really cool idea. I would play in a group using any number system. I don't think its really a good fit for a game designed to be entry level but it would still be fun.

love,

malkav

 

[Jawsh]

Is this just a ploy to finally use all of those 12 sided dice that have been collecting dust in your dice holding apparatus all these years? Well it wont work! The die will need to have an A and a B on them.

Maybe it's a ploy, maybe it isn't. Maybe I just want a chance to try out my d144 (which would be a d100 in duodecimal, and consists of one regular d12 and a second d12 labeled with multiples of 12), which I think would be much more satisfying than the d% we currently use for rolling on treasure tables and such, giving me 44 more choices for every table.

 

[Jawsh]

I am appaled at this mundane attempt to make the game easier for muggles. If anything, the game needs to use a prime number as base, so the game is a proper exercise for our advanced brains. I suggest Base 17, just to confuse the peasants with Computer Science degrees.

I also suggest to use an n-dimensional solution space for skill checks. Anything isomorph to a torus is fine.

Oh my. I am thoroughly chastised.

 

[gloomhound]

Nerds.