Fighter improvements
- Thread starter Siberys
- Start date
Arkhandus said:
That is assuming that the fighter is already balanced vs those other classes.
IMO, I would not give the fighters the exotic weapon for free.
What I would do is expand thier skill points to 4 and increase thier skill list to include a wider skillset including all skills useful in combat.
This should cover the fighters flexibility problems a bit.
As for the feat per level? its a viable option, another option is better feats, yet another option is to allow existing feats to scale upwards with level. I personally prefer these last two fixes as it helps the non-fighters, non-spellcasters as well, but helps the fighter more.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
The problem with free EWP is that it makes those characters that don't use exotic weapons feel like they completely wasted a class feature. Most fighter builds already don't use about a third of their weapon proficiencies.
Nadaka's skill boosts would go a long way towards making the fighter a more useful character, particularly with a list that includes things like Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Tumble. Remember, Tumble skill requires you to not have your speed lessened by armor, loot or anything else, so for the light-armor fighters it's great, and it may prove useful even to the dwarven tanks on those occasions when they don't have their normal armor.
I'm a huge fan of feats, as a general rule and a fan of getting something at every class level. So, I support your increased feat progression.
I think the d12 is probably a touch too much. Not much of a touch but a touch. With a bump to skills and more feats, a d10 fighter should be a match or superior to any other mundane combat character.
Nadaka's skill boosts would go a long way towards making the fighter a more useful character, particularly with a list that includes things like Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Tumble. Remember, Tumble skill requires you to not have your speed lessened by armor, loot or anything else, so for the light-armor fighters it's great, and it may prove useful even to the dwarven tanks on those occasions when they don't have their normal armor.
I'm a huge fan of feats, as a general rule and a fan of getting something at every class level. So, I support your increased feat progression.
I think the d12 is probably a touch too much. Not much of a touch but a touch. With a bump to skills and more feats, a d10 fighter should be a match or superior to any other mundane combat character.
Arkhandus
First Post
No, I did not assume the fighter is already balanced with other warrior classes. It is simply that the number of extra feats, and the greater hit die, are more than enough compensation for any deficiencies of the fighter compared with those other warrior classes. Thus, a bit unfair to them, but I never said it was far too unfair (I wouldn't necessarily demand a small boost to those other classes, but I would consider it at least).
In 3.5 it's a bit more debatable (than in 3.0) whether or not the fighter is balanced with the barbarian and such (since Complete Warrior and PHB 2 added so many more fighter-appropriate feats). Though I would still consider the fighter a bit disadvantaged to other PC-class warriors (and I consider all of the mundane and slightly-magical classes to be at a minor disadvantage toward magic-focused classes at upper levels).
Look through the other pages of threads in the House Rules forum for "What Do You Do For Fighters?" thread, it has various folks' little changes and variants on the core-rules Fighter class, including my Aurelian version of the Fighter (though I'm not the one who started the thread; I'm terrible with names, so I can't remember for sure off the top of my head, but I think it was a thread started by Nyaricus). This one should be 2-5 pages back (not sure exactly) and I don't recall if it came after the March forum crash or not.
EDIT: Here's Nyaricus' thread. About two pages of posts to it, of various peoples' Fighter tweaks, houserules, and variants. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=167223
In 3.5 it's a bit more debatable (than in 3.0) whether or not the fighter is balanced with the barbarian and such (since Complete Warrior and PHB 2 added so many more fighter-appropriate feats). Though I would still consider the fighter a bit disadvantaged to other PC-class warriors (and I consider all of the mundane and slightly-magical classes to be at a minor disadvantage toward magic-focused classes at upper levels).
Look through the other pages of threads in the House Rules forum for "What Do You Do For Fighters?" thread, it has various folks' little changes and variants on the core-rules Fighter class, including my Aurelian version of the Fighter (though I'm not the one who started the thread; I'm terrible with names, so I can't remember for sure off the top of my head, but I think it was a thread started by Nyaricus). This one should be 2-5 pages back (not sure exactly) and I don't recall if it came after the March forum crash or not.
EDIT: Here's Nyaricus' thread. About two pages of posts to it, of various peoples' Fighter tweaks, houserules, and variants. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=167223
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A lot of players use Fighter as a dip class for feats or fulfill to Prestige Class feat requirements and most main stream Fighters are pretty much destined to enter a Prestige Class that it's odd to see one who hasn't. So my personal fix, which I'm working on now, is to bring some Prestige class style bonuses to the Fighter over their level span. "Archetype" bonuses I call them, and they have their own feat requirements that need to be fulfilled.
Skills is probably the best way to go though. Kind of odd Fighters would have a bad skill selection when they are meant to be the most varied build class in the game.
Skills is probably the best way to go though. Kind of odd Fighters would have a bad skill selection when they are meant to be the most varied build class in the game.
Al the Absentminded
First Post
In the Fighter varient I'm tinkering with, Fighters have
1) The equivalent of d12 hp (d4-d8 Scratch, d4-d8 Evade, and the best progression in Heart Points and Dying Points)
2) A base of 2-4 Physical Skill Points, 0-2 Study Skill Points, and 1-2 Awareness Points per level (5 + Int bonus per level)
3) Enough Skill points to maximize either Intimidate or Leadership, dedicated to Intimidate and Leadership
4) Either 1.0 BAB progression in all weapon skills or .75 BAB progression with all weapons and 1.25 BAB progression in a narrow selection of weapons (a single weapons group, for example, or a small set of specific regional weapons produced specifically for someone of the FIghter's background).
5) The ability to trade out Heavy and Medium Armor proficiencies and both Shield Proficiencies at character creation, to be used to purchase feats more appropriate to the character concept.
6) The ability to switch out the melee weapon proficiencies for a set of weapons appropriate to the background of the character, not to exceed the equivalent of 6 feats worth of weapon proficiencies.
7) A special adrenaline-powered awareness skill, that is automatically maximized, that is normally only useful during combat or other times of obvious danger.
8) A Disciplined Development ability that reduces the physical Ability Score requirements for feats by 1 for every 3 Fighter Levels.
9) Several Fighter Excellency points each level that can be used to purchase various special abilities and feats. This replaces FIghter Bonus feats and normal feats. Feats cost various amounts of Excellency Points.
10) Fighter Mastery Points become available eventually to allow the purchase of supernatural abilities. A sign that the campaign is going Epic.
I'll probably do more work on this once I figure out the best way to shut down D&D's linear progression and replace it with a 'diminishing returns' progression.
Anyway, Barbarians are created by taking a 'strong' Fighter package and combining it with a particular 'weak' Green(Instinctive) package. Rangers are created by combining a Strong Fighter package and a different Weak Green(Instinctive) package or a Weak Green(Studied) package, depending on the flavor of Ranger. Paladins combine a Strong Fighter package with a Weak Divine(Instinctive) package.
-Albert
1) The equivalent of d12 hp (d4-d8 Scratch, d4-d8 Evade, and the best progression in Heart Points and Dying Points)
2) A base of 2-4 Physical Skill Points, 0-2 Study Skill Points, and 1-2 Awareness Points per level (5 + Int bonus per level)
3) Enough Skill points to maximize either Intimidate or Leadership, dedicated to Intimidate and Leadership
4) Either 1.0 BAB progression in all weapon skills or .75 BAB progression with all weapons and 1.25 BAB progression in a narrow selection of weapons (a single weapons group, for example, or a small set of specific regional weapons produced specifically for someone of the FIghter's background).
5) The ability to trade out Heavy and Medium Armor proficiencies and both Shield Proficiencies at character creation, to be used to purchase feats more appropriate to the character concept.
6) The ability to switch out the melee weapon proficiencies for a set of weapons appropriate to the background of the character, not to exceed the equivalent of 6 feats worth of weapon proficiencies.
7) A special adrenaline-powered awareness skill, that is automatically maximized, that is normally only useful during combat or other times of obvious danger.
8) A Disciplined Development ability that reduces the physical Ability Score requirements for feats by 1 for every 3 Fighter Levels.
9) Several Fighter Excellency points each level that can be used to purchase various special abilities and feats. This replaces FIghter Bonus feats and normal feats. Feats cost various amounts of Excellency Points.
10) Fighter Mastery Points become available eventually to allow the purchase of supernatural abilities. A sign that the campaign is going Epic.
I'll probably do more work on this once I figure out the best way to shut down D&D's linear progression and replace it with a 'diminishing returns' progression.
Anyway, Barbarians are created by taking a 'strong' Fighter package and combining it with a particular 'weak' Green(Instinctive) package. Rangers are created by combining a Strong Fighter package and a different Weak Green(Instinctive) package or a Weak Green(Studied) package, depending on the flavor of Ranger. Paladins combine a Strong Fighter package with a Weak Divine(Instinctive) package.
-Albert
