Fighter

[UngeheuerLich]

The fighter still looks a little boring.

I will see soon if it is so in play, but I have the feeling, fighter´s surges should not have been taken away.

Also I think the Idea of giving a second theme to the fighter was not that bad.

Why not make themes with the same name as the fighting styles. And if you chose a fighting style, you automatically gain the feats of the same name (like rogue schemes work)

So you could have a two weapon fighter fighting style, and you get the theme as a bonus (a theme, that itself is only borderline useful, but may be cool if you get it for free).

Edit: maybe a fighting style could also grant a bonuns skill, so that a fighter also has 4 skills at the beginning like most other classes.

 

[Advilaar]

The fighter still looks a little boring.

I will see soon if it is so in play, but I have the feeling, fighter´s surges should not have been taken away.

Also I think the Idea of giving a second theme to the fighter was not that bad.

Why not make themes with the same name as the fighting styles. And if you chose a fighting style, you automatically gain the feats of the same name (like rogue schemes work)

So you could have a two weapon fighter fighting style, and you get the theme as a bonus (a theme, that itself is only borderline useful, but may be cool if you get it for free).

Edit: maybe a fighting style could also grant a bonuns skill, so that a fighter also has 4 skills at the beginning like most other classes.

The fighter needs to keep improvements from 4e. Mainly, his mark. The mark should apply to ranged, too. A good fighter should be hard to get away from even if he is ranged. Other than that, to specialties not needed.

 

[Frostmarrow]

The fighter needs to keep improvements from 4e. Mainly, his mark. The mark should apply to ranged, too. A good fighter should be hard to get away from even if he is ranged. Other than that, to specialties not needed.

I never cared for mark. I hope for something a little more elegant to address the problem mark is supposed to fix. Something a kin to hold the line from the guardian specialty.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

I never cared for mark. I hope for something a little more elegant to address the problem mark is supposed to fix. Something a kin to hold the line from the guardian specialty.

I could see a combat maneuver that would give the target disadvantage when attacking someone other than the Fighter.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Isn't that just mark?

Mark is a -2 if you attack someone other than the marker

Disadvantage (~-3) is what they've used to replace all the little -2s out there.

Now the 4e fighter had a special power that let him attack on a broken mark, but I don't really know that it's needed, Simply mark, replacing the -2 with disadvantage is what I'd push for right now.

 

[Advilaar]

Isn't that just mark?

Mark is a -2 if you attack someone other than the marker

Disadvantage (~-3) is what they've used to replace all the little -2s out there.

Now the 4e fighter had a special power that let him attack on a broken mark, but I don't really know that it's needed, Simply mark, replacing the -2 with disadvantage is what I'd push for right now.

yeah, all these multiple +s and -s need to go away.Too much bookkeeping.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I played a Fighter and I enjoyed the marking mechanic, mostly abusing it by grabbing Wizard powers to hit everything I could and acting as a controller. There weren't many enemies who didn't have to attack me or suffer a penalty.

Still, this was silly. It's clear that in a wide battlefield, if I blast everyone, I can't possibly interfere with them all - I only got one immediate action a turn after all. If they bring a marking mechanic into the game, I'd prefer it to be a single target effect, melee or ranged (even at range I could see an enemy moving differently so that you can't train your bow on their weak spot).

However, with the Fighter getting combat superiority (which needs tweaking, but is nice), I think this sort of marking mechanic would be best placed on the Ranger. It's perfect for them - imagine combining the defender effects of mark with a hunter's quarry like damage ability. They would be kings of focusing on a single enemy and taking them down.

 

[DogBackward]

More likely, we'll see something like a maneuver for this. There's no need for marking specifically; the useful part was the attack if they ignored you. Since we already have a resource that represents the Fighter's badassery, why not make use of it instead of making the Fighter track yet another combat variable with marking?

My guess is something akin to:
"Challenge: You can use this maneuver as a reaction when an enemy within your melee reach makes an attack against an ally that you can see. Spend an Expertise die to make a single melee attack against that enemy."

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

Isn't that just mark?

Mark is a -2 if you attack someone other than the marker

Disadvantage (~-3) is what they've used to replace all the little -2s out there.

Now the 4e fighter had a special power that let him attack on a broken mark, but I don't really know that it's needed, Simply mark, replacing the -2 with disadvantage is what I'd push for right now.

What I was saying was that I could see a combat maneuver (possibly in a "Harrier" fighting style) that had the same effect without creating a "Marked" condition. My expected maneuver would probably look like this:

Benefit: When you make an attack against a creature, you can spend a single expertise dice to give that creature disadvantage when making attacks against targets other than you.

 

[Vikingkingq]

The fighter still looks a little boring.

I will see soon if it is so in play, but I have the feeling, fighter´s surges should not have been taken away.

I think if we're going to make the Fighter more interesting we should do it through the Combat Superiority System, so that we accomplish our aims while still allowing CS to act as a "dial" between Simple and Complex Fighter.

I've got a whole thread of ideas here, but the gist of it is:

• More but smaller dice. Big part of the reason why the Fighter doesn't seem interesting atm is that with only one die, you can only do one thing to jazz up your round and if you want to be able to do defense/reactions, you can't do anything interesting with your turn until you hit level 5. My idea was that if you started at Level 1 with 2d4 instead of 1d6, you're not really changing the damage curve, but you're giving level 1 Fighters the go ahead to do multiple things in one turn and experiment with combinations of maneuvers instead of feeling required to dump everything into damage, which teaches them how to play the class better. Likewise, if you ended up at level 20 with 8-10 smaller dice instead of 5d12, you have more room to modulate between offense and defense, pull off maneuver combos, make use of reactive maneuvers like Cleave, and spread your dice over multiple attacks.
• Dice should refresh at the end of the Fighter's turn. Big problem with the defensive maneuvers right now is that you have to save your die/dice until your enemies' turn, which means you can't do anything on your turn, and if you don't get attacked or one of your allies within range doesn't get attacked, you've wasted dice. If instead of refreshing at the start of your turn, CS dice refreshed at the end of your turn, you can start out the fight able to act, then have dice on hand so that you can make the decision about acting defensively vs. saving the dice for your turn when you see what's actually happening.
• Most maneuvers should "grow" with additional dice. Right now, quite a few maneuvers can only absorb one die, which limits the ability of the maneuver to scale as you level - Cleave, Jab, Knockdown, Shift, Tumble, Snap Shot, Precise Shot, and Push don't ever get better as you level. This causes a problem with later levels. Allowing these maneuvers to provide additional benefits for additional dice would keep them current throughout leveling, as well as make sure that the higher-level trend towards fighting big beasties doesn't invalidate large elements of the Fighter's playstyle.
• More front-loading of maneuvers. Right now, the Fighter starts with Damage, Damage Reduction, and one other maneuver. This doesn't really lend itself towards learning the class, and it means that the Fighting Styles don't feel that special (especially in comparison to the very flavorful Warlock Pacts, Sorceror Bloodlines, etc.). A level 1 Duellist Fighter, for example, knows how to Tumble, but has to wait four levels before they can Shift. Starting out with three maneuvers (and only 2 dice, keep in mind) would give the Fighting Styles more flavor: the Duellist tumbles through their enemies, Shifts before or after attacking in addition to their move, all while Jabbing away at their enemies; the Protector shields his comrades, and deals with enemies by pushing them away or knocking them to the ground.
• New Maneuver: Tactical Strike. This was an idea I came up with after feeling that Jab felt a bit "meh" when it came to stunting (but potentially a great way to allow multiple smaller attacks). Tactical Strike would allow a Fighter to use a standard combat tactic open to non-Fighters (Disarm, Charge, Sunder, Charge, etc.) without using up their action. This way, Fighters are encouraged to combine their specialized maneuvers with stunting, so that their "Combat Superiority" shines in all areas of combat.
• Multi-Dice Maneuvers. This idea deals both with the need for more exciting maneuvers than 5e versions of Power Attack, Trip, etc. and gives a way for the designers to make sure that the Fighter has the superior functionality and flexibility of the 4e Fighter without breaking the power curve. The idea is that at higher levels, Fighters could get access to more advanced maneuvers that require 2, 3, or even 4 dice to use, giving them the option between a careful spread between offense, defense, tactics, and reactions and a splashy big hit that taxes their dice pool, leaving only a couple dice left. For example, a Furious Charge maneuver could let a Fighter charge and make one standard melee attack against every target they come in contact with for 4 CS dice; a Whirlwind Attack maneuver could let a Fighter do an AOE close burst against all enemies in reach for 3 CS dice.