Fighting a Red Dragon

[irdeggman]

You are in way above your head here. Like I said before it is not a "fair" encounter for on-on-one.

Your PC is 17th level the dragon has at least 22 HD - that puts him way above your CR capacity.

Now if the DM does a lot of "limitations" like prevents the dragon from flying or using all of its abilities then it might be closer - but still just using HD puts it a 5 above your level (which is 3 above the tough encounter and well into the probably deadly range).

Combat here is not your friend - your best bet is to "negotiate".

 

[meltinbradley]

hey

I havent read all of the comments, but one thing that worked really well when my PC's were fighthing a dragon I sent at them is casting spells that drain strength, and or fatigues the dragon. They got the dragons strength so low it wasnt able to fly and being fatigue didnt help much either.
Now youre 17th level so the dragon you are fighting was probably a lot stronger then the red dragon they fought. They fought a adult red dragon and they were around 12th level at the time. I know SR, etc are lower for younger dragons. But if you can weaken it to the point that its tired and cant move fast and it cannot fly at all plus its attacks are lowered because of the strength drain its not going anywhere. Now focus on spells or items that protect you from fire or grant evasion. And Dispel magics would be good as well incase it has some nasty spells upon it. My 2 cents...MB

 

[Runestar]

Well, if the dragon is huge/gargantuan, you can use forcecage (the barred version) to trap it. Though it is not difficult to escape it (dim door/teleport), so you may want to smack it with a dimension lock spell first. After that, it is simply a matter of finding something that works (be it stacking multiple cloudkills or ....?)

 

[Shin Okada]

One on one fight against 400+ years old red dragon, that is tough.

Overcoming the Dragon's SR still seems to be the main problem. If the Red Dragon is Old, SR is 24, or 28 if the DM gives him Awaken Spell Resistance feat. And you have only few spells which can ignore SR. I suggest you to buy some item (scrolls or wand) of Assay Spell Resistance, seriously.

And, expect the Red Dragon to do something you are not predicting. Your play group is using many supplements including Draconomicon and Dragon Magic. That means, the Red Dragon is not likely to be of simple build within core rules. He may have feats, skills & items from various supplements. Even within core rules, Red Dragons are tricky as they can learn cleric spells, too (thus, say, may cast Restoration or similar spell to remove ability damages from Shivering Touch, casting Silence while using Silent Spell for himself, etc.). So I recommend you to learn Limited Wish anyway. Anything may happen. And your spells known may not solve that situation. You need versatility.

Gathering information beforehand could be the key to win. Use skills and spells (including items) to gather as much information about the dragon as possible. Dragon of that age must be famous and thus people in the area should know something or have records about it. Buying scrying item may help, too.

If you can cast Summon Monster VIII. You may likely to let the summoned monster fight alone while you are watching the fight from safe place (say, while hiding with Hide from Dragons spell or using Scry and such). You don't need to win the dragon in a single fight.

And, don't try to win it with a single fight. You can always retreat with your Greater Teleport spell when you find something wrong.

 

[akbearfoot]

If this is intended to be a solo fight then it had better be a lower CR than your level or most likely you will die a horrible death in short order.

Unless you have immunity to having your buffs dispelled which is unlikely....a relatively aged dragon is going to strip those buffs right off you.

If the dragon is red, you can count on it having resistance to cold damage, since it would be a stupid dragon if it didn't. Also expect it to have breath sub because any smart dragon knows that pesky adventureres hunting red dragons are gonna be loaded down with resist fire potions/scrolls etc...

Have a ring of freedom of movement, or die fast....unless you can kill it in 1 round it's going to move right up to you and grapple you. If you let it get more than 1 attack on you you will be pinned and won't even be able to D-door away. Without serious buff spells, including shapechange or PaO you will have no chance to beat a huge or better dragon in a grapple.


There was a spell somewhere called Ray Reflection I read once....worked like spell turning but only worked on rays....If I were a dragon, I'd have it for sure....Pesky mages and their Enervations and Empowered Rays of enfeeblment.


I played a lv18 wizard in a game where we fought the Colossal Red dragon...CR 21 version though....Opening round I hit it with an Empowered Energy Drain, and an Quickened Empowered Ray of Enfeeblment....it took a -8 to all rolls, and an additional -12 strength on top of that....It still could have butchered me in melee, but it could no longer hit the buffed warriors...the leap attack combat brute goliath with the great hammer killed it in 1 round after 1 full attack including a crit for 275 someodd damage. Was pretty anti-climactic really.

 

[Iku Rex]

He could get a scroll of Spectral hand to touch the Dragon for him.

Only works on level 4 spells or lower.
Spectral Hand :: d20srd.org


***

Unless you have immunity to having your buffs dispelled which is unlikely....a relatively aged dragon is going to strip those buffs right off you.

A CR 20 Old Red Dragon is only caster level 11. It won't even have access to Greater Dispell Magic. At CL 17+ he should hope the dragon wants a magic duel.

 

[Runestar]

I sure am missing the archmage's arcane reach right about now...

 

[Rackhir]

If your DM is any good and is using stuff from the draconomicon, then just commit suicide and save yourself the hassle of getting the stuffing beaten out of you. Seriously, unless your DM is an idiot or is hamstringing the dragon somehow you are toast. The draconomicon has a LOT of HORRIBLY unbalanced stuff.

Stun Ray is an excellent choice, since it does pretty much guarentee you a round or two of the dragon being stunned.

Reciprocal Gyre (especially maximized) can be very effective vs the dragon if it has a lot of spells up. It's untyped damage and ignores SR.

Radiant Assault (SC lv 7) is also untyped damage and has a 15d6 damage cap.

Analyze Dweomer is extremely useful as it not only tells you all the spells the dragon has up, but also their caster level. This can help you avoid wasting spells when the dragon has spells up that would negate the spell (such as cone of cold vs energy resistance cold). It will also let you know exactly what spells your dispels have brought down.

One possible tactic is to put up the barred force cage around your self, so as to prevent the dragon from going to HtH with you.

Maze is a good spell to buy you a couple of rounds. You could conceivably use it to summon creatures or otherwise prepare the battlefield. Elementals are generally your best choice for summoned creatures.

If the dragon is an arcane caster, Feeblemind (-4 on the save for arcane casters) + Limited wish (-7 on a single save) has a very good chance of completely screwing the dragon.

 

[Graybeard]

Hi,

My DM has informed me that this is to start as a standard magic duel. Buffs first, then some low level spells and such. However, in the end, there can be only one (I know, blatant Highlander quote). He said the object is to defeat the dragon while impressing the other members of the secret organization which I am a member. Whomever wins, gains leadership of the organization.

My DM doesn't use much out of any books beyond core and the complete books. He does allow the players to use feats and spells from other sources provided we let him know first so he can either disallow it, or modify it if needed.

I am really looking forward to this duel. I've decided to take Limited Wish and am still considering which other spell to take.

Thanks for all your suggestions and thoughts. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Graybeard

 

[Graybeard]

Hi,

The duel with the dragon went as well as can be expected. After I dispelled it's buffs, it went melee against me. I managed to last about a dozen rounds or so before I was down to 1HP. By that time I had Feebleminded it and done some damage. Turns out it was a mature adult red dragon. Fortunately, the other dragons and creatures watching the duel demanded the red dragon spare my life if I conceded (which I wisely did). However, I was kicked out of the secret society which will now be led by the red dragon. On the plus side, since I had put on a good show, several good dragons (and a couple of evil ones) decided to split from the society to join our group in the fight against the Furies (5 very evil epic level females, a Drow, a Vampire, a Human, a Medusa, and a Rhakshasha). As an added bonus, I now own a robe of displacement and have an adult silver dragon as a cohort. Not too bad over all.