Fighting dogs, hunting dogs, and making them familiar

[Infiniti2000]

If your players are buying a riding dog with only three tricks for 75gp ("fighting dog") they are getting a fabulous deal. I would price that animal at 125gp because riding dogs are so much tougher than regular dogs.

So, with three extra tricks, you price it more cheaply than a regular riding dog, which is 150gp?

 

[porthos]

First off, let me thank you all for your very helpful and well thought out responses. This has aided me immensely.

As far as whether or not I priced the dogs correctly or chose the right dog as a base, I think I did fine. I used the MM "Riding Dog " (or "Dog, Riding" technically) which is a medium creature. This seems to match up with the "Dog, Riding " from the "Mounts & Related Gear" list in the PHB.

So I think the "Fighting Dog" (75gp) and "Hunting Dog" (150gp) when compared to the PHB "Riding Dog" (150gp) is fine. Mainly because I think the "Dog, Riding" in the PHB & MM are the same creature. I'm just changing its skill set. Although comments to the contrary made me go back and check my math, which is always a good thing. Thanks.

As for allowing it as a familiar, I think I will have to say "No" to my player. Not because of stats, because as several of you pointed out, they become a lot less dangerous (other than damage) when they become a familiar. But Thurbane (thanks also for the Special Ability recommendation) and Infiniti2000's comments especially reminded me of size and CR value. Every other familiar is either Tiny or Diminutive and at most 1/3CR. It seems unbalanced to throw a Medium CR 1 creature into the mix; even if it's new stats might knock its CR value down a notch.

As for Improved Familiar as an option, that seems overkill. The dogs all blow compared to what's on the Improved Familiar feat list. I guess I would allow it, I just wouldn't recommend it.

Awesome comments all. Thank you so much for helping me out.

 

[Infiniti2000]

As for Improved Familiar as an option, that seems overkill. The dogs all blow compared to what's on the Improved Familiar feat list. I guess I would allow it, I just wouldn't recommend it.

You can always boost the dog to be equivalent to other creatures on the Improved Familiar list. If just adding hit dice doesn't really work, I'm sure you could arrange some cool scenario where the dog is granted extraordinary and/or supernatural abilities that make it equivalent. Some sort of benefactor from the outer plane or whatever--highly campaign dependent.

Despite my protests, I really do encourage working with the player on it, because if he seems that enthused by it, then letting this work will do everyone a world of good.

 

[Thurbane]

You can always boost the dog to be equivalent to other creatures on the Improved Familiar list. If just adding hit dice doesn't really work, I'm sure you could arrange some cool scenario where the dog is granted extraordinary and/or supernatural abilities that make it equivalent. Some sort of benefactor from the outer plane or whatever--highly campaign dependent.

Despite my protests, I really do encourage working with the player on it, because if he seems that enthused by it, then letting this work will do everyone a world of good.

Or you could apply a template to a dog to bring it up to Imp. Familiar status - Celestial or Fiendish, perhaps...

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I know from personal experience that wolverine familiars are wildly unbalanced. If your dogs pwns a wolverine, you're in for trouble. If the dogs is weaker than a wolverine, YMMV.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

u know dog is listed as one in a dragon have too look thue em and find out witch one

 

[nittanytbone]

1) Prices for animals are in the SRD.
2) Prices for animal trainer hirelings are in the DMG. I think your training costs are a bit high myself, but that's just me.
3) The PCs could train the animals themselves if anyone can hit the requisite handle animal checks (not hard with aid another actions, guidance from the cleric, and equipment bonuses)
4) Complete Warrior gives some ideas and guidelines for Improved Familiars for wizards that include things like riding dogs, worgs, etc.
5) Arcane Hierophant is a great PrC for combining a familiar with an animal companion.

 

[porthos]

I totally agree with you, Infiniti, on working with my player. I think I'll pursue that angle a bit more. Probably by taking your advice, Thurbane and make it celestial. We're playing in Forgotten Realms, so anything can happen.

Hunter In Darkness, do you happen to know which Dragon issue?

nittanytbone, I briefly looked through Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane, and I didn't see anything about improved familiars. The fact WotC doesn't do indexes for the books doesn't help any. Grrr... Are you sure it was in CW?

 

[Shades of Eternity]

It is

cw page 100

however doesn't say anything about riding dogs.