Fighting Dragons

[Larrin]

The secound D&D gameday senario was 5 level 1 PC's verses 1 white dragon (2 fighters, 1 cleric, 1 rogue, 1 wizard all pregenereated). Open range, dragon could fly around etc. It was tough, and several people yo-yoed a bit, but we drove it off (was within 1 hit of dying) This was with the DM interpreting "slowed" as you can only take one action per turn. If he'd actually known the rules better (not his fault) we'd have likely gotten in many more actions and killed it a lot better. It was exhasting for level 1 characters, espeacially since it was everyone's first day with 4e, but we won.

So i don't find dragons to be too tough. Plenty tough, but not unbeatable.

Now if you Hover out of melee reach, and just wait until your breath weapon recharges and blast the PC's, yeah, you might slowly whittle down a ranged light party with little they can do. But its going to be pretty boring for every one. You can make powerful use of flight and hover without making it unfun/impossible for players.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

I've tried the White Dragon vs 4 2nd-level characters (rogue/paladin/fighter/wizard). The characters were already worn up by 2 important fights in the day and the battle took place in a big icy cavern (speed divided by 2).

The dragon did a great use of his breath and mobility and the fight was long. But it was clear that he couldn't stand against the party, even if half of the party was weakened and the rogue had difficulty to use sneak attack.

The dragon fled with only 10 remaining HP.

 

[Tony Vargas]

We had our first battle with a dragon this weekend. Young Black Dragon + a custom level 4 artillery, vs party of 6 level 3 characters (taclord, TH-fighter, archer-ranger, pretty paladin, AD(D) rogue & staff wizard). Setting was a swamp with lots of trees that hampered movement some (they counted as filling thier squares, so you couldn't cut diagonally across them) and a few ponds (& part of a lake), around a fairly large clearing. The Dragon's ally confronted us and initiated hostilities, then the dragon came out of the lake. The opening salvo of Breath + Frightful Presence was pretty nasty, but it didn't hit as many of us as it might have. Two PCs lost thier first round of actions vs it. The warlord used Pin the Foe and flanked with the Rogue, while the pally & archer dealt with the custom artillery pretty decisively. The Dragon used it's darkness, so the melee types scattered away from it and the wizard filled the darkness with her Shock Sphere (if I'd known what Freezing Cloud did, I'd have called for that instead, to help drive it out of the zone). The dragon exited the darkness to attack our back rank (the melee types having scattered, remember), and the whole battle moved across the clearing. The ranger (an eladrin ported away) and the wizard backed off and cast icy terrain, so the rogue could SA after running across the clearing. The melee types got back into range (re-activating Pin the Foe, so it couldn't shift), bloodied the dragon, took it's 'bloodied breath' with pretty grim results (the warlord was saved only by the Paladin's Martyr's Blessing), the wizard followed up with her Freezing Cloud, and another round of attacks later, the archer finished it with a critical hit.

If the dragon had taken to the air, it might not have done much better. It's breath didn't recharge often (if at all), and the party's archer puts out whithering damage, plus the wizard's long range attack ability and some throwable weapons, and it might've had a tough time with the hover & breath tactic. I thought there was more to the darkness ability - that it could be maintained or something, maybe I 'm remembering it wrong. Retreating to the lake would have saved it, but it would have to have run on the round it's darknes expired (it wasn't bloodied at that point, and we were on the run) - all the other rounds, it was Pinned (unable to shift) and adjacent to the Fighter (who could cancel a move with her OA).


The warlord, rogue & wizard unloaded dailies, and, since we'd just had a milestone, everyone used an Action Point, (enhanced by the warlord's Tactical Presence & Assault).

 

[FireLance]

If we were out in the open plain it would have been a completely different battle. The dragon would simlpy fly around sniping us with breath weapon attacks until we died. Our high damage fighter and melee ranger would have been limited to basic ranged attacks and would therefore be nearly useless.

I'm away from my books right now, but don't dragons have Overland Flight instead of normal flight? That means they will have to land in order to attack.

 

[Victim]

I'm away from my books right now, but don't dragons have Overland Flight instead of normal flight? That means they will have to land in order to attack.

Dragons have both overland flight and flight with hover. So they're fast on long distance movement, and in combat. Those cheaters.

 

[Vael]

My party of four has twice engaged dragons at our level (encountered a White at level 3, and a Black at level 4) and walked out without being too badly beaten up, not even really that badly damaged. Honestly, I'm starting to think I need to buff Dragons up a bit.

 

[Ravingdork]

My party of four has twice engaged dragons at our level (encountered a White at level 3, and a Black at level 4) and walked out without being too badly beaten up, not even really that badly damaged. Honestly, I'm starting to think I need to buff Dragons up a bit.

I think the thing that a lot of people here seem to be missing is that you are expected to win against encounters appropriate to your level. Haven't you guys noticed that the challenging fights in the modules are always 1-5 levels HIGHER than the party?

A level 3 dragon for five 3rd-level characters should be a breeze!

 

[Victim]

I think the thing that a lot of people here seem to be missing is that you are expected to win against encounters appropriate to your level. Haven't you guys noticed that the challenging fights in the modules are always 1-5 levels HIGHER than the party?

A level 3 dragon for five 3rd-level characters should be a breeze!

Exactly. A level X solo against a level X is usually just a standard encounter - even if there's only one guy.

 

[Vael]

Well, 4 PCs are not 5, an equivalent level solo is a tougher than average encounter for a party of 4, but I concede the point.

 

[Alaric_Argent]

We just killed a black dragon...

Just got home from game a little while ago, and our DM was quite chuffed about the black dragon we fought and killed. The party is 4th level, with a tiefling paladin, a fighter, a rogue, a ranger, a cleric and a wizard. The dragon had a lair in an old temple in the shadow fey, and it had some cruthicks (sp?) guarding the area, so most of the party was a bit cut up before the dragon made his entrance. Though the party had acquired some roots for a special plant-mud preparation to reduce the acid damage for a while, some party members had exhausted even that precaution before the battle ended. The DM was quite pleased that the dragon had some things to show brains as well as brawn, and several party members got bloodied in the process. It did strike me as a fairly well-balanced encounter, all told.