D&D 5E Fighting Style for Melee Knife/Dagger Use

[doctorbadwolf]

And get +2 to hit from archery style?

Which means sharpshooter dagger throwers should use strength and throw the daggers as improvised weapons. If an improved dagger throw resembles a dagger, you are considered proficient and can take a -5/+10 sharpshooter benefit even!

IIRC, Archery specifies “attacks with a ranged weapon”, rather than “ranged weapon attacks”, so no Archery Style on improvised attacks by RAW.

RAI, I’d only allow it if you have proficiency with improvised weapons.

 

[Esker]

Improvised ranged weapon attacks have a range of 20/60. That includes throwing Melee weapons.
It would, oddly, only do 1d4+strength damage.

It’s in the PHB, under Improvised Weapons.

Yeah, that's right. 'swhat happens when I try to cite the text from memory instead of looking it up.

So you could throw a longsword 60 feet without disadvantage if you had sharpshooter (but no proficiency bonus to hit, unless you also had tavern brawler). It's weird but strictly worse than throwing a dagger.

 

[Esker]

And get +2 to hit from archery style?

Which means sharpshooter dagger throwers should use strength and throw the daggers as improvised weapons. If an improved dagger throw resembles a dagger, you are considered proficient and can take a -5/+10 sharpshooter benefit even!

(this is a joke)

I know it's a joke, but I don't think it becomes a "ranged weapon" when you are making a ranged attack with it as an improvised weapon. So no archery and no -5/+10.

 

[DND_Reborn]

LOL so how about this:

My 8th level fighter with STR 20 (or whatever, as long as it is better than DEX) picks up a light x-bow and throws it at an orc 50 feet away under 3/4-cover.

He has Archery Fighting Style, granting him a +2 on the attack roll. After all, the light x-bow is a "ranged weapon".

He has Tavern Brawler, so has proficiency with Improvised weapons so still gets to add his prof bonus on the attack roll.

He has Sharpshooter, so can throw it up to 60 without disadvantage and ignoring the cover in this case.

Since this is an attack with a ranged weapon with which he is proficient, he accepts the -5 to hit for +10 to damage.

All-in-all, he is +5 to hit (+3 prof, +2 archery) and will do 1d4+15 if he hits, killing the orc.

Should this happen? No, probably not. Once the light x-bow is thrown it becomes an "improvised weapon", but by the rules it IS a "ranged weapon". It is also a "ranged attack" because he throws it.

Add the SA to this as well:

So, yeah, a "ranged weapon attack" means a ranged attack (he throws it) with a weapon (which, it is, even if improvised).

Have fun with that one.

 

[NotAYakk]

Why would he need Tavern Brawler? I mean, he has proficiency with improvised weapons that are similar to weapons he has proficiency with, and a crossbow is very similar to a crossbow.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Why would he need Tavern Brawler? I mean, he has proficiency with improvised weapons that are similar to weapons he has proficiency with, and a crossbow is very similar to a crossbow.

Well, I just threw that in because he isn't using the ranged weapon as it was intended to be used, so some people would argue as an improvised weapon, he wouldn't get it proficiency bonus on the attack roll.

Likewise, if you throw a longsword, as a melee weapon, it is an improvised weapon and many tables would deny you proficiency IME. Similarly, people who try to make shield punches treat it as an improvised weapon attack.

For this reason on our homebrew character sheets, we have a checkbox for Improvised Weapons next to Simple and Martial.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Seriously, a dagger is an 8-12 inch blade of steel. Why does it do less damage than a rapier again?

Sheesh! The Fairbairn-Sykes dagger is just under 12" long total, with a blade of just over 6". A 12" blade is massive - I'd call that a short sword in D&D

 

[Esker]

@dnd4vr I don't think the crossbow counts as a ranged weapon when you throw it either. It's an improvised weapon, which is its own thing.

 

[NotAYakk]

@dnd4vr I don't think the crossbow counts as a ranged weapon when you throw it either. It's an improvised weapon, which is its own thing.

It is on the ranged weapon table. That is what defines a "ranged weapon".

Obviously.

A weapon you attack at range isn't a ranged weapon. A weapon you use to make a ranged weapon attack isn't a ranged weapon. Things on the ranged weapon table are ranged weapons!

Anything else is madness.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, that's right. 'swhat happens when I try to cite the text from memory instead of looking it up.

So you could throw a longsword 60 feet without disadvantage if you had sharpshooter (but no proficiency bonus to hit, unless you also had tavern brawler). It's weird but strictly worse than throwing a dagger.

Yeah, which does kinda make Tavern Brawler the 5e “Throw Anything” feat.

One thing I love in Star Wars Saga Edition, is that there are certain rules where if you have two or more specific feats they sort of smooth over any bumps. So like, if you have quick draw and dual wielder, you also get the ability to draw two weapons at once when you draw a weapon.

In 5e, I think there is clear room for something like that.

So, like, if you have Warcaster and Mage Slayer, you can cast a spell at someone with the reaction attack granted by Mage Slayer, for instance.