Figureing XP for an odd encounter

[Felnar]

some people are raising a good point:
did the orcs act in a way that was against their nature?

orcs arent smart, but arent dumb or suicidal either.
the army probably has a leader, who hopefully is a better tactician than a standard orc.
un-standard orcs should modifiy the exp,
smarter orcs = more exp
suicidal orcs = less exp

- Felnar

 

[S'mon]

The EL was highly in the PCs favor, and I would represent that through the xp award, definately. They had fortifications and the enemy had to move over a fairly narrow bridge to get to them. I'd probably make it at -50% xp.

That sounds probably right. You can calculate & see if it seems reasonable for the difficulty of the challenge - at that level full XP for 30 CR 1/2 orcs is 4500 XP + 5 CR 2 Worgs is 3000 XP = 7500 XP total, or 1500 per PC; not totally outrageous but if circumstances were in PCs' favour I'd give 1/2, 2/3 or 3/4 of that. I tend to think 1000 would be fair here.

 

[Dracomeander]

I have a question.

It was a 5' wide 30'long stone bridge. Why were the orcs required to make balance checks?

5' wide would be a DC 0 balance check. Even adding in the modifier for slick - give it the benfit of the doubt and make it moderate +5 - and that brings it up to DC 5. Even rolling a 1, the orcs won't fall off the bridge. There have to be other modifiers applying.

Also, the PCs were there to infiltrate and eliminate the orcs as has been clarified. They still have to deal with the sixty or so orcs who decided to wait them out when the PCs retreated. The PCs were using the orcs defenses against them. The situation was equally favorable to both sides. If the orcs decided to try to use their numbers to force the PCs out, that is no reason to penalize the XP award to the players.

 

[Pickaxe]

If the players knew about the approaching army and planned the attack with using this position as a defense point, then they should not get full XP due to the fact that they set it up in their favor. As has been mentioned, probably about half XP for the defeated creatures.

If they were just in the area when the orcs attacked and made use of the current situation on the fly, then they should get normal XP for the encounter.

Actually, I would argue the opposite. If the PCs just happen to be in a good defensive position, then I would lower the EL. If they made some sort of choice to find a good defensive position and lure the enemy into it, I would keep the EL closer to that of the CR of the defeated monsters.

Two other points:

One factor that would figure into how I altered the EL is how much of a threat the 90 orcs plus worgs were to the PCs. If the other 60 orcs really had no chance of harming the PCs, I would definitely lower the EL. If, OTOH, the very effective PC tactics and defenses still put the PCs distinctly in harm's way, I would be less inclined to lower the XP from the encounter.

In this case, I would only award XP (whether full or a fraction thereof) for the killed creatures, since the DM could argue that the rest of the army is still a threat to the PCs, even though they withdrew from this battle.

--Axe

 

[Bront]

Here's a different attitude on this...

I know that we as a group generaly don't assign exps based on the exact ECL chart, but more on the general challenge, roleplay, and story. So, characters tend to advance in level as they accomplish things that goes allong with the story more than with what chart X says. It doesn't mean it's always even rewards, but the style works, and lends to a fairly good storytelling experience from both sides of the screen.

So, if you are worried, use the chart as a guideline, and then go from there. Don't advance them faster than you feel comfortable with though. However, don't penalize them for thinking smart either. Perhaps there's another reward beyond exp awaiting them (Land, gold/items, training, ect).

 

[Crothian]

I have a question.

It was a 5' wide 30'long stone bridge. Why were the orcs required to make balance checks?

They were also moving at fast speed not slowing down so they got an additional penalty for that.

Also, the PCs were there to infiltrate and eliminate the orcs as has been clarified. They still have to deal with the sixty or so orcs who decided to wait them out when the PCs retreated. The PCs were using the orcs defenses against them. The situation was equally favorable to both sides. If the orcs decided to try to use their numbers to force the PCs out, that is no reason to penalize the XP award to the players.

Interesting point. When we took the outpost, we used steralth and suprise and got in before they could sound a general alarm and get the full defenses ready. When they attacked us, we were waiting for them expecting trouble.

 

[Crothian]

One factor that would figure into how I altered the EL is how much of a threat the 90 orcs plus worgs were to the PCs. If the other 60 orcs really had no chance of harming the PCs, I would definitely lower the EL. If, OTOH, the very effective PC tactics and defenses still put the PCs distinctly in harm's way, I would be less inclined to lower the XP from the encounter.

In this case, I would only award XP (whether full or a fraction thereof) for the killed creatures, since the DM could argue that the rest of the army is still a threat to the PCs, even though they withdrew from this battle.

--Axe

The other 60 orcs could proive to be a problem next session, we will wait and see. Doors were shut, locked and secured as much as possible to slow down their advancement towards the PCs. THe PCs talked about setting traps but really did not have the time or proper equipment to do so.

 

[ThirdWizard]

So why is the effect of the Flaming Sphere being largely ignored? The Crothian indicated that was a PC's doing, and it forced choices upon the mooks.

'Splain please.

Because it largely didn't affect the battle near as much as the other mitigating factors. It cut off the orcs, but it seems like the PCs could have fought the orcs off on the other side of the bridge. 90 orcs 2 or 3 at a time is not nearly as difficult as 90 orcs on a flat plain.

In this case, I would only award XP (whether full or a fraction thereof) for the killed creatures, since the DM could argue that the rest of the army is still a threat to the PCs, even though they withdrew from this battle.

I guess it depends. If they run into them later, that would be a different encounter, so it would have no bearing on this particular one. It really comes down to how the DM feels, did they beat back the army or did the army beat them back. It's kind of both in this case, so it's up in the air. Half xp in this case seems fair to me, but it could go many different ways.

 

[Aeson]

I may give extra xp to the flaming sphere caster if it was his/her idea, if not give it to the one that thought of it. In this situation it seems fair to give 50% maybe. They did have a shooting gallery set up basically and fortifications. If you want to give full XP wait and bring back the full army with new tactics. Make the fortifications less of an issue.

What is the lay of the land? Does the fort have weaknesses? Can you answer these with out helping the PCs?

 

[geflin]

A couple of quick questions and observations...

wow, i'm actually going to try replying to thread other than my own...

questions first:

1. i'm a little confused here. Crothian, are you a player or the DM in this instance. at times you refer to "the PCs" but then you say things like "We gave better then we got." and "our goal was..." so which side of the screen are you on?

2. are there social factors involved in the orc tribe in question? what i mean is, on your world (or the world you play on) are the orcs less intelligent or something? if not, i would definatly take away some XPs from the orc leader...

all in all (in my opinion), even though you have the charts and graphs to go by, what it comes down to is this:

there are really no rules that you as a DM have to abide by other than:

consistancy.

being consistant in treating your players and handing out awards is the hallmark of a great DM. rules be damned, you are the god of that world. just rememebr that good ideas deserve rewards, just as bad ideas deserve punishment. i think i stand with the majority of peopl who have weighed in on this by saying that they deserve some XPs for the use of good ideas, but the full XP ammount would not really be fair. i like thanee's picture.... ummm.... i mean i like her idea. add it up and give them 1/2.

sorry about not using quotes in this post. i'm new and am still learning how to use the board! cheers all, enjoy your day and thank you for reading!