Figurines of Wondrous Power

[DracoSuave]

This is incorrect. NO summons have attacks. The rules on summons clearly state that some summons list attacks which the summoner can make THROUGH the summons. There is no facility by which a summons can make an attack of its own and in fact they entirely lack any sort of powers whatsoever. Thus summons cannot flank, categorically due to failing criteria #3.

Summons are explicitly described as being allowed attacks by the rules.

If a summoning power allows the summoned creature to attack, you make an attack through the creature, as specified in the power description.

If you're able to make an attack through the creature, that's because it's allowed to attack. If it's allowed to attack, it's able to attack. And if it's able to attack, it satisfies that part of the rule.

The reason summons can't flank, is because the Summoning keyword prevents them from taking actions. And that IS an effect denying Opportunity Actions.

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Tho, kudos on the attacks/actions thing. I've rescinded my previous statement, there -are- no effects preventing it from taking opportunity actions, so therefore, it satisfies 3 and therefore Figurines of Wonderous Power can flank.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Summons are explicitly described as being allowed attacks by the rules.

If a summoning power allows the summoned creature to attack, you make an attack through the creature, as specified in the power description.

If you're able to make an attack through the creature, that's because it's allowed to attack. If it's allowed to attack, it's able to attack. And if it's able to attack, it satisfies that part of the rule.

The reason summons can't flank, is because the Summoning keyword prevents them from taking actions. And that IS an effect denying Opportunity Actions.

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Tho, kudos on the attacks/actions thing. I've rescinded my previous statement, there -are- no effects preventing it from taking opportunity actions, so therefore, it satisfies 3 and therefore Figurines of Wonderous Power can flank.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that its reasonable to consider an FoWP capable of flanking. It means they are essentially not governed by the general conjuration rules, but given how different they are in presentation and nature from all other conjurations, and the fact that the rules for them in AV1 are a fairly complete little subsystem of its own it isn't that big a stretch really.


Summons though I have to disagree with you on. They are not making attacks. The caster is able to make an attack THROUGH the summons. Notice that this really IS an attack by the caster, it benefits from any and all bonuses due the caster when making such an attack, implement bonus, stat bonuses, applicable feat bonuses, etc. Summons don't even HAVE stats and they don't have any sort of attack bonus, etc. So clearly be RAW they fail to meet the basic criteria. I'm pretty sure this issue has been consistently addressed by CS too. SOME summons do have defined attack actions that the caster can use to make OAs etc. but the issue is that the summons may be in a flanking position but its the caster that can attack from that position, so its at least not directly addressed by the flanking rules. Note that you cannot flank with a reach weapon either, so the general interpretation has always been that the benefit is only available when the two allies themselves are actually present in the flanking positions, not just that they can attack from those positions.

 

[DracoSuave]

Summons though I have to disagree with you on.

The books say they are explicitly capable of making attacks. The mechanics of those attacks, the technicalities become irrelevant at that point.

They are capable of making attacks.

That's all. Flanking is satisfied at that point. How? Doesn't matter. Anything beyond that is over-complication.

It doesn't matter that -you- are making attacks through it. What matters is that it is -explicitly described as making attacks-.

But, the summoning is denied -actions- which, at that point, renders them unable to flank.

 

[Maro]

Bringing this issue up again; has this been addressed anywhere officially?

Also, with mountable FoWP, are they assumed to come with saddles? Can they be fitted with saddles if not? Magical Saddles? It doesn't say they have a mount slot, so I assume not...but a Saddle of the Martyr would be quite useful in offsetting their insanely low HP. One can wish, anyway...

Actually, I forget. One can't Wish in 4e.