File-Sharing: Has it affected the RPG industry?

dreaded_beast said:
After a quick stop over at Zeropaid.com, a website that deals with news regarding file-sharing and the ramifications of it, I started wondering if file-sharing has any affect on the RPG industry.

Steps have already been taken to crack down on file-sharers by the music industry. The movie industry may follow suit soon enough, although this is just my opinion. According to the music and movie industry, file-sharing has has some affect.

Granted, the RPG industry is probably nowhere near as large as the music or movie industry, but it is probably affected in someway by the file-sharing phenomenon.

Has file-sharing had any significant affect on the RPG industry and how large do you think it is?

First, some actual research on the matter, to perhaps give a basis to this discussion: http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf . Other than the RIAA's claims, there's still no evidence that filesharing ever hurt music sales--all we know for certain is that file sharing went up and CD sales went down in the same period--a period when lots of other relevant changes occurred. Actually, IIRC, wasn't it not that CD sales declined, but that they grew at a slower rate than anticipated?
 

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Henry said:
That said, there are two beliefs on this issue. One belief is that it does not affect much or at all the RPG industry, and only helps when rare or out-of-print games are made available to the public who wants them. Another is that it is very harmful to an industry that already works on a shoestring budget, and has no beneficial effects at all.

My personal opinion is that the people whom it hurts most are the small-press publisher, and followed closely by the RPG industry as a whole. Here's why:

The small-press people see sales (maximum) of 5000 copies over the lifetime of one product, in rare circumstances going higher than that. PDF publishers will see an average of 100 to 500 sales TOTAL of a product, only slightly more if it's absurdly popular. Whether or not illegal file downloaders would or would not have purchased a copy is irrelevant; if the legal channel is the ONLY venue for it, then they won't have the copy anyway, and the owners will have a sharply accurate picture of the true sales figures and popularity of their products. If it wouldn't matter that downloaders wouldn't pay for it anyway, then it won't matter either if they are denied the product they are after. :)

The other problem is WotC's (the industry leaders) skewed sales projections concerning the copied products reflects poorly on their sales figures in Hasbro's eyes; conceptually speaking, if EVERY person who HAD an illegal copy of a given WotC book had at least one LEGAL copy of that book, sales figures would likely be drastically higher, and the producers of the #1 leading RPG would see the RPG line as much more popular than it is currently. In other words, if people actually PAID in a scale reflective of the work's popularity, sales figures would be higher than they really are.

Well, if we want sales to accurately reflect popularity, shouldn't we let people pay what they think something is worth? Maybe all those people with illegal copies of the Draconomicon would gladly buy it for $20, but not for $35 [is that what it costs?]. But they are instead faced with a binary choice between buy it for $35, or not buy it at all. So they seek to make a third way.

Of course, i'm not so idealistic as to believe that every person with an illegal copy of a book would pay what they thought it was worth even if they could. Lots of people have a logical disconnect between value and money--i still remember a discussion on a similar topic where someone said that one was being a fool to pay "cover price" for an RPG book rather than get it at discount. Not because she thought the books were overpriced, given the value of their content to her, but simply because they could be bought cheaper. There is certainly a very strong cultural trait, in the US at least, that cheaper is better (assuming equal quality), and that is rapidly eclipsing (or already has eclipsed) the notion of "fair recompense" for something. Of course, this is in large part a response to most goods these days being mass-produced in distant markets with lower costs, with profits going disproportionately to corporate entities and the high muckity-mucks in charge of them rather than the people doing the raw labor, so that what exactly is "fair recompense" is much less obvious than it once was. Sorry, bit of a tangent there.

Anyway, what if the current sales do reflect the works' popularity? If illegal [digital] copies of books were simply unavailable, those who currently have them would be faced with two possibilities: pay for them, or do without. Period. How do we know that they would all choose to pay for them? Do we even know that the majority would choose to pay for them? Especially given we're talking about optional add-ons for a luxury-good leisure activity, i wouldn't be one bit surprised if most would simply do without. Back before the web (much less filesharing programs), nobody i knew had an illegal copy of an RPG book, despite many having relatively easy access to free (or at least un-monitored) photocopying priveleges. Wait, no, there was one guy who showed up with a photocopied something once (MMII?). We all thought he was being at least a weirdo, if not a jerk, and if he got any other illegal RPG books, he never showed us, so they weren't actually being used for gaming. And this was among a group of people who had pretty meager incomes, and simply keeping up with the AD&D1 hardcover release schedule (without buying any other RPG stuff) was a bit of a financial burden, so it's not like we had all the RPG stuff we wanted. Ironically, he was the only one of the RPers i knew who was relatively well-off, and could have easily bought all the RPG stuff he wanted.

Both producers and consumers have an acceptable price for a good--actually, usually a range. When the consumer's [maximum] acceptable price falls below the producers [minimum] acceptable price, the consumer simply doesn't make the purchase. That's how it's always worked. That doesn't mean the consumer thinks that the product is without value, just that the value is less than the product is sold for. In that circumstance, the product will never be bought. Period. [And by "minimum acceptable price", i'm including sale prices.] But the consumer might still be sufficiently interested in the product to acquire it if it were to fall into their price range. Thus, frex, the secondary-book market. Which, i hasten to point out, does not benefit the producer.

How does filesharing play into all this? By providing the product for free, those who find any value in the book will consider it worth the "price". That is not the same as cutting into sales, however. If people behave morally, filesharing will do no harm. If they behave immorally, it won't take filesharing for them to do harm. I don't think it is necessary to never have an illegal copy of an RPG book to not be harming the RPG industry, or individual producers. But it is necessary to be honest with yourself, and pay for those works you think are worth paying for, or do without.

Let me give you a specific example to tear apart. I don't like D&D3E. The more i play it, and thus the better i get to know it, the less i like it. The D&D3E game i was involved in has long since switched systems, and then fallen apart due to scheduling concerns. The person in the group that was the initial impetus for using D&D3E for the game his since moved out of town, so even if we started a new game it's unlikely that anyone would be pushing for that system. For that matter, it was only unusual extenuating circumstances that even got me by my prejudices to be in the game to start with.* So, it is safe to say that i will not ever play in a D&D3[.5]E game again. However, there are still reasons for referencing the D&D3E PH from time to time, such as discussions on the nature of the RPG industry, or whether or not D&D engenders a particular playstyle. So, while i won't be using it in a game, i might still have use for it, in a scholarly vein. I'm not sure of an exact number, but looking at opportunity costs, i'd say it has a value to me of somewhere in the $1-$3 range--it's more than zero, but not by much. It's certainly not worth $10, because i've passed on it in used stores at that price a couple of times. And that seems to be as cheap as it gets. Thus, the question becomes, should i acquire a copy? Am i hurting the industry, the hobby, or WotC in any way if i download a copy for that once-a-month (or less) reference question (i currently use my roommate's copy, or email a friend who has a copy, or ask online), because i can't find a copy anywhere near the price i think it's worth? Or is the only moral thing to do to wait until i happen to find a used copy somewhere for $3? Because i can answer with perfect confidence that i will *never* break down and spend $10 for a copy (unless inflation has reduced $10 to the price of a McCheeseburger, i suppose).

To my mind, it's simply the flipside of the situation i'd be in had i bought a copy of the D&D3E PH: should i now sell it, knowing that the value of owning it to me is near-zero, and therefore pretty much any price i can get would put me ahead?

This is not to say I believe electronic copies are inherently a bad thing; personally, I believe if I own at least one copy of a book, I should have access to an electronic version of same. Some vendors offer that at a premium, some do not, but I think it would be more helpful to gamers as a whole if it were offered as such.

Why? I still havent' decided where i fall on this issue, so what's your take? Why is getting a 2nd copy of a work a "right" so long as that 2nd copy is digital, rather than physical?

This is my take on it, and goodness knows many other posters here have had different takes on the subject. But realistically looking at the issue, PDF sharing can't help a small publisher who decides whether he eats Ramen Noodles or chicken based on the sales of his 5 most recent books - while the file sharer who's eating his chicken is cozied up to the latest pirated online copies.

Oh, I definitely agree. Don't take any of this as defense of that activity. Anyone who is stealing a book directly from someone, especially at the ridiculously-low prices of PDFs, had better have a pretty good idea of what they're doing, and recognize that it's likely doing a fair bit of direct harm. I understand the desire for preview. But reading the whole thing through, thinking about it (or using it in a game) for a few months, and then filing it away on a CD--or even deleting it--isn't "previewing." If your usage of a pirated copy of an RPG book is no different from a purchased one (or only as different as the medium dictates), then you're lying to yourself. And, for the record, i have mixed feelings about doing the same legally: spending a week of Sundays at Borders (or the FLGS) reading a book you never had any intention of purchasing. Especially if it's a likely-one-read book to begin with. From the standpoint of the social contract between producers and society, libraries are different in that they tend not to cut into first-release sales: the books take a little while to get into libraries.

* And i'm glad they did. Many of my prejudices regarding D&D3E were ill-founded. But I discovered a whole bunch of things that are true about the system that i can't stand. And i'm very glad my prejudices against D20 System were shattered, or i might've missed some really great games out there.
 

Ashrem Bayle said:
I've got a PDF copy of almost every book I use in my campaign. I use the PDF copy at work, and the book at home. To me, I pretty much need both. Heck, in many cases, I'd pay for PDF copies of books I already own just for the convenience.

So, do you send an extra, say, $5 to the publisher for each PDF that you have? Or at least those fall into the "many cases" you'd be will to pay for a PDF of?

I suspect that most producers would be OK with filesharing if they saw *something* from it, in the way of profits. If they got a buck for every digital copy of an RPG book out there, it might not be such a big deal that those people weren't spending $25 for the official copy.
 

Rel said:
and I understand why many people think it is ok to do: They think that there is no victim because they would not have paid for the product in the first place and therefore no money is theoritically lost. But I say that money is being lost.

You're over at a friend's house gaming and you've brought your laptop. Friend A and Friend B are chatting and A mentions that he's heard about a new PDF called "The Complete Jester" that has the "Guy in the Silly Hat" prestige class that would be perfect for his PC. He's been thinking about buying it. "Me too," says B, "I've heard that the Weapon Juggling feat is pretty neat, and besides, that PDF only costs $5 and it's put out Chartreuse Samurai and their products are always good."

"Wait just a moment, Gentlemen! No need to go pay for that product. I've got it right here. Now...there and...there. I've burned you each a copy! *hands A and B discs*."

And Chartreuse Samurai loses revenue that would have cost each of the players less than the cost of the Grilled Chicken Combo #6 they picked up on the way to the session. But no harm done, right?

Well, you're right, money is obviously being lost there, since friends A and B would have otherwise bought the product. I don't think anyone has disputed that point, however. What has been said is that if someone is not willing to pay the price of a book and instead chooses to download it illegally, no money is lost, since they would not have purchased the product if the illegal version was not available. This is, as far as I can tell, absolutely correct. I don't claim that this is the end of the ethical ramifications of it (I don't think it is by a long shot, but that subject strays far from the original purpose of the thread), but I have yet to see evidence that refutes that specific point.

My response to (part of) the original question - I think illegal file sharing certainly has the potential to hurt the PDF publishing industry in particular, since its much less work on the part of the pirate to redistribute something already in an electronic form, and the legal version has no inherent value beyond that of the illegal copy (no "book in hand" value, etc). Judging from the responses so far in this thread, however, it seems to have had a small effect thus far, since most people that illegally download PDFs seem to preview the work and then either buy or delete it. Of course, that's all contingent on the responses in this thread being representative of the RPG community as a whole. I'm going to go out on a limb though, and say that I believe that gamers interested in third-party PDF publications and gamers who frequent RPG-related message boards both fall into what I would term "hardcore gamers," (or at least "not beer & pretzel gamers") and thus membership in the two groups probably has quite a bit of overlap. I have absolutely no factual basis for that statement, it's just a guess on my part.
 

Aezoc said:
Judging from the responses so far in this thread, however, it seems to have had a small effect thus far, since most people that illegally download PDFs seem to preview the work and then either buy or delete it. Of course, that's all contingent on the responses in this thread being representative of the RPG community as a whole.

As has been maintained on many an occasion, ENWorld is not a meaningful cross-section of gamerdom. And I also don't have a lot of faith that the responses in this thread who say "I may download it illegally but only to preview and then I buy it or delete it" are representative of illegal downloaders in general. In other words, I think incidences of people who would say, "Yep, I download everything illegally, never pay for any of it and it doesn't bother me a bit" go vastly under-reported because that's a great way to get ripped a new one on a forum like this where the people who they are stealing from visit the site and are friends with many other posters.

Many people keep pointing to the instances where folks wouldn't have paid full price anyway so them downloading the file for free is not a loss of revenue on the part of the vendor. I think that this ignores the fact that, while if there were no illegal avenue to obtain the PDF for free the person might be willing to pay $5 instead of the $10 listed price, given the option to purchase it for $5 or download it illegally for free, they'll take the free option. I guess I'm saying that once you've opened the door and begun to download stuff illegally then you're probably going to ask yourself at some point, "Why should I ever pay for another PDF when I can just get it for free?"

I have a hard time not believing that a significant portion, if not a majority of the pirates out there just decide that there is absolutely no reason for them to pay for any of the stuff they can obtain for free. While they may have the money and may genuinely enjoy many of the products they steal, enough to be willing to pay full price for them, there is no incentive to do so and there is no meaningful deterrent not to do so. So, at that point, they have artificially lowered what they consider to be a reasonable price for a product to almost nothing because they KNOW they can just go steal it for free. And since they have artificially lowered that price then they can claim, in one of the flimsiest of rationalizations I've ever heard, that they wouldn't have been willing to pay full price anyway so no loss of revenue is attributable to the vendor.
 

Rel said:
Many people keep pointing to the instances where folks wouldn't have paid full price anyway so them downloading the file for free is not a loss of revenue on the part of the vendor. I think that this ignores the fact that, while if there were no illegal avenue to obtain the PDF for free the person might be willing to pay $5 instead of the $10 listed price, given the option to purchase it for $5 or download it illegally for free, they'll take the free option.

I don't ignore that point at all. There are some folks who would pay the lower price if it were available. There are some who would not.

Unfortunately, the pdf business is small. I would not be surprised if the occasional cut-rate sale would improve things for the vendors, but there's no good way to publicize. Even EN World only reaches a small fraction of the market.

The point about lost sales is not that there are no thieves. It is merely that pdfs are not televisions. If one takes a television out of a warehouse, there's a clear loss to the company who built that TV. But for electronic media, without the warehouse and the physical objects, we must be a little more careful about how we calculate the economic losses involved in theft.

This is not to say that there is not loss, and bad habits formed. But in considering what we should do about it, we have to be fairly careful in our deliberations.

I guess I'm saying that once you've opened the door and begun to download stuff illegally then you're probably going to ask yourself at some point, "Why should I ever pay for another PDF when I can just get it for free?"

Yep, if one is a bit weak in the ethics, and/or a bit short sighted, that is likely to happen.

However, I should note that the door was opened back when the floppy disk was invented, and it isn't going to get closed unless we suffer catastrophy that knocks us back into pre-computer technology. For purposes of this discussion, there's no such thing as unbreakable copy-protection.
 

dreaded_beast said:
Has file-sharing had any significant affect on the RPG industry and how large do you think it is?

I remember reading a question and answer type article on the web where Gary Gygax noted that the odnd rules were frequently photocopied and passed around. This helped the initial growth of the game. In that sense at least file sharing has had a positive impact on gaming. I don't have link to the article, but I believe it was German or Italian in origin.

Scotley
 

med stud said:
That is correct. I read in a paper somewhere that the music records are mainly commercials for the artist. Selling t-shirts and doing concerts is what makes them rich. It's logical; if you sell 1 000 000 CDs for 1,6 $ profit per CD will give you 1 600 000 dollars. It's much but it wont let you live like a rock star.
The waters are, unfortunately, considerably muddier than this. Different artists have different circumstances. One reason Metallica was so vocal about Napster was that they own the rights to their work, and merely distribute the music: they reap a much higher portion of the profits of their work than, say, Prince, who was almost legendary for how badly he was abused by the record industry. Contrast this with the Grateful Dead, who made (and in parts, still make) the lion's share of their quite formiddable profits from the proceeds of their touring schedule, not their music sales. In fact, they received precious little of the proceeds, afaik, one reason for their famous attitude toward recordings and bootlegs (though personal philsophy was surely equally or more influential).

Further, many stars might have made considerable salaries from their work in the past, if not for unethical treatment at the hands of their labels. Issues such as charging exoribatant fees when recording the album to the artist, and then collecting those fess from their proceeds, was a farily famous and standard example. An artist could have a hugely succesful record and actually end up owing the company money.

These days, the merchandise may make the artist as much money as their work, but this really only applies to a certain tier of artists. Further, contemporary contracts are much better (thanks to the efforts of many artists over the past few decades) than they once were.

As for how piracy effects RPGs, I tend to think it has a small impact, inversely proportional to the publisher's size. Fifty people pirating 'Elements of Magic' is far more damaging than 1000 people pirating Unearthed Arcana.

I also agree with what Henry's saying, in that clearly, the material is desired, at some level. That they're not willing to pay the requested price doesn't invalidate the laws of supply and demand, merely indicates that the ease of acquisition of those items has changed the negotiating price. If those books were available no other way, I'm sure some of these pirates would buy them, if they were inexpensive enough, or they would purchase just one or two that were the most valuable to them. Are there some who wouldn't buy any? Quite likely....but I suspect the majority would, if the price point were low enough, purchase some of them.

That said, I just can't see my way clear to illegally acquiring any RPG products. EVER.
 

I agree with everything that's been said about the ethics of filesharing. I view copyright infringement as ethically wrong, in that it deprives the author of renumeration that he/she has earned by the intellectual labors involved in creating new IP. I admit I have fileshared files of various sorts, and offer no justification/excuse for this behavior. The fact remains in this debate, however, that some 60 million Americans have engaged in filesharing.

That said, I think that the companies are in fact contributing to the overall acceptance by a large percentage of the population (leaving aside the die-hard "I want it free, gimme" folks who would probably do whatever they could get away with in any case) of filesharing as a legitimate practice. While I agree that many people are just jerks who will stiff creators/authors/distributors whenever they can for their own selfish benefit, I also think that there are many people (I won't estimate whether this percentage is larger than the former group, but I would like to think that it is) who WANT to see creators get their due. Unfortunately, the actions of content companies are pushing more people from Column B (people who generally want to play by the rules) into Column A (screw 'em).

My reasoning behind this statement:

1) A point I asserted earlier in the discussion: a perception among the population that enjoys media of various sorts that the companies that control distribution of product screw the creators of said product out of an overwhelming majority of the revenues earned by sales;

2) An aggressive campaign by content-controlling groups/companies (not so much in RPGs, but definitely in music and movies) to discourage copyright infringement by the pursuit of aggressive legal campaigns against often sympathetic targets (like college students), including filing lawsuits against infringers for millions of dollars with an obvious intent to pressure cash settlements from them;

3) Pursuit by said groups of legislation that is perceived (rightly or wrongly) by the content-consuming public as unfair or unethical; for example the DMCA and other laws that erode widely-accepted principles of "fair use", and copyright extensions that have the practical effect of indefinitely withholding material from the public domain;

4) Reluctance to accept or pursue new means of distribution that better suit the changing needs/wants of consumers. The RPG industry is actually bucking this trend, I think, but accepting the PDF method of distribution of content. In music, we are seeing iTunes and like models appear, which are great, but consumers are still unhappy about a) DRM, format, and copying restrictions that limit their ability to enjoy the product, and b) pricing models that do not reflect consumer desires. Furthermore, there has been discussion of including even more restrictions in the next generation of media players (both computer software and hardware devices like TVs and DVD players) that has the potential of further alienating consumers.


I'm not saying that content producers should just passively accept filesharing, but I do believe that these massive media companies are unwilling to accept what I see as the inevitable future model: a distribution model where more profits end up directly in the hands of content creators and the middlemen are increasingly removed from the picture. Thus they are driven to even more aggressive campaigns to protect their monopolies and current profits. History would suggest that these attempts will only drive consumers away to the alternatives.
 

First up, Umbran, I just wanted to say that I consider you to be one of the people who really makes ENWorld a great place. Just about every time I see one of your posts, I look forward to reading something thoughtful and insightful. I've been meaning to tell you that and now is as good a time as any. Kudos!

Umbran said:
The point about lost sales is not that there are no thieves. It is merely that pdfs are not televisions. If one takes a television out of a warehouse, there's a clear loss to the company who built that TV. But for electronic media, without the warehouse and the physical objects, we must be a little more careful about how we calculate the economic losses involved in theft.

Agreed. Without the "brick and mortar" concerns, I'd suppose that their only real costs by the point at which they are selling the PDF would be the costs for maintaining their website and perhaps a bit of advertising. But I don't think we should ignore (and I don't think YOU are, Umbran) the costs associated with producing the work in the first place. I'm sure that in many cases the product produced is a "labor of love" but it is a "labor" nonetheless. The pirates are gaining the benefit of that labor without paying for it and that is morally wrong.

However, I should note that the door was opened back when the floppy disk was invented, and it isn't going to get closed unless we suffer catastrophy that knocks us back into pre-computer technology. For purposes of this discussion, there's no such thing as unbreakable copy-protection.

You are absolutely correct and I don't want my point to be misunderstood. I can foresee no real solution to this problem and there is probably no cost-effective way to implement one. But I do maintain that the people who are stealing the PDF's are doing a wrong and they are doing it to the same people who they share their hobby with. The people who are getting screwed in this whole situation are not some fat-cat corporate bigwigs who fly around in private jets. PDF gaming products are produced, almost without exception, by people who play and love the game and are making a fairly small amount of money in the process. To proclaim that they are not entitled to that little bit of cash for their efforts is a slap in the face to those who labor to increase your fun.

Therefore I don't see any point in using the same sorts of arguments about gaming PDF's that one would about mp3's and the music industry.
 

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