File-Sharing: Has it affected the RPG industry?

[MerakSpielman]

Yeah, it's a sort of mental block Henry. But some people have far more illegal copies of things than they could ever have afforded to legitimately purchase, so it can't be said that they would have bought them if they couldn't have gotten them illegally. There's also the small matter of physicality. They don't view it as stealing becuase nobody out there is missing a product. Shoplifting is stealing, they recken, because after you shoplift an item, the store has been denied to ability to sell it. Pirating digital stuff doesn't carry that same moral weight.

 

[James Heard]

Yet here they are, in possession of a copy. That's the part that doesn't add up if it's not a lost sale.

Why do they own the copy, if they do not wish to own it? It's not analogous to someone mailing it to them without their knowledge; it does take conscious and willing searching and acquisition. Therefore, if someone wouldn't want (and by extension, purchase) a copy if they were denied it otherwise, then why are they expending the effort in the first place?

If I pick up a book in a store, flip all the way through it, sit down with it and read it in depth, and then put it back on the shelf - did I just steal something? What if I wait till the library gets the book, and then only read it from the library? Listen to a song solely on the radio? Wait for the movie to come onto cable? There's a lot of ways consumers engage in activities that basically amount to 'owning' the essentials of an IP product without paying for it, even if it's as simple as borrowing the book from a friend or watching your friend's movie at his house. Saying that the vast majority of 'pirates' are somehow consuming your product without payment waves a finger at other 'consumers' without really coming up to plate and confronting the fact that this isn't really a new behavior. The only new thing here is the saturation and ease possible.

For pdf publishers I have sympathy, because they're basically in a similar boat with shareware creators and have a strong reliance on consumer good will and guilt without a distinctly different 'tangible' to peddle on a shelf. On the other hand, I've quite a few friends who've done well with shareware over the years so I think a big element of a successful PDF line might be in following the shareware principles of constant updates, support, and praying that someone with more money than you will like you enough to distribute your product in some fashion. I think I've already seen a few 'value pack' bundles for some pdfs, I think that sort of branding is right on target.

Dead tree books though, unless you're sponging off your corporate printing capabilities it's usually more expensive and drastically poorer quality to print something of any length anyways. Then, to get a similar product you have to bind it and hardcover a lot of them...it's just not worth it. I've seen one or two notebooks meticulously printed and plastic-sleeved as "easier to lug around than 20 books" sorts of things 10 years ago, but I don't know anyone who's gone to the trouble of the sort of mass 'piracy' that goes on with music. Books are still intrinsically different and superior to their digital counterparts to the average consumer. The RPG market has more to fear from a low cost, easy to use and operate handheld Ebook reader than anything else; if such a thing ever really caught on I think we could start comparing apples with apples re: music. Till then I think the vast majority of people downloading pdfs illegally are probably 'browsers' for lack of a better term and good for your publishing in the long run because they lead to awareness of the products. If someone likes to think of them as 'stealing from their children's dinner" then so be it, but it's just as likely that they might be "stealing from their children's dinner so that they'll pay for their college tuition" later on. It doesn't matter how you get people aware of your product in the long run, even the Rolling Stones probably did shows for free or at least far below the cost of a ticket now.

On the other hand, if people come across as abusive to their customers (even 'browsers') then they really HAVE lost sales. Maybe that's because we've all be spoiled by radio, MTV, cable television, libraries, and BooksAMillions where we can 'get something for nothing' but like it or not it's out there.

 

[Rel]

I think all this "stick it to the corporate MAN" stuff is total BS and is simply a rationalization. If it works for you, fine, but I've got no respect for it. Besides, the 3rd party publishers of d20 products are about as far away from "The Man" as you can get. The analogy is more like this:

Say there's an off-Broadway play being put on. The people involved don't anticipate that they'll make a killing at it, but they're willing to work hard at it and make it a good production because they like putting on plays and they WILL make a bit of money at it. So they put in all the work, they put on the show and some people buy tickets. But one of these people who bought a ticket goes around to the back door and starts letting in people who didn't buy tickets and pretty soon, half the audience is made up of people who didn't pay.

Does that seem fair to the people who are putting on the play? The people who snuck in the back door can say all day long that they wouldn't have paid full price to see the play anyway and so no money is lost by the actors. But it is still a slap in the face to the folks who are already being paid a pittance for their work. They spent time that they could have spent with family or friends or working or gaming and instead they spent it making this product. And what you're saying is that that time is worth nothing.

People who do that are jerks, pure and simple.

 

[der_kluge]

I admit that I didn't read this entire thread, but I'll plop down my own thoughts (it's the *in* thing to do, right?).

Last I checked, I probably have 800 megabytes of downloaded .pdfs in my Bearshare folder. Which, is probably in actuality a lot less than you might think it is, since a big WoTC book can be about 75 megs. I've got probably 40 files or so. And, I also keep my BearShare folder available for sharing all the time.

The number #1 thing that is downloaded from my PC are my nude Drew Barrymore pictures, and the Paris Hilton video. So, folks just aren't flocking to my machine to download D&D .pdfs.

I'm going to blow the whole jerk/cheapskate, etc., theory, and add myself to a brand new category - the collector. I just collect these things. Sort of like, my downloaded collection of SchoolHouse Rock videos, and Ambiguously Gay Duo videos (which are free, anyway) that I have.

My computer is a toy to me. I work on a computer all day at work (well, except when reading ENWorld), so when I get home, sometimes I crank up my 80s music jukebox, and play MAME games and Atari games on Stella (combined, I have over 1000 roms).

To be honest, I've downloaded things that I've never even read. It's highly possible that I have downloaded things that I've never even *opened*. I just have them. There's really not enough time in the day to read through all these things. But, if I'm working on something, and someone says, "check out such and such book", I can, because it's sitting in my /downloads/documents directory.

And yes, at least one of my downloads resulted in a purchase - Complete Warrior. I was impressed enough with Complete Warrior that I purchased it after reading through the .pdf I have of it.

Another argument for downloading D&D .pdfs is that some things are out of print. My friend asked me to download Death in Freeport (I think that's it) - the 1st module in that series, because it was out of print, and he wanted to look at it. We found it on Ebay, but the guy wanted $100 for it. (seriously). So, I downloaded it, and gave it to him (he owns the others in the series). I don't know if he'll ever run it or not. Time will tell.

And for the record, I've never seen Sigil's stuff out on Bearshare. I also have purchased .pdfs from RPGNow. I own all of Sigil's stuff (I think), and a few other .pdfs that have interested me (including some older WoTC titles, and Book of Templates).

I would also contend that, at least from the perspective of Bearshare, some of them are hard to find. Some are fairly common (like some of the major WoTC titles), but some of the obscure d20 stuff is really hard to find. Lots of things aren't out there at all. Someone has to sit down and scan it all in, after all. So, whoever is doing that really needs to respond to this thread.

 

[Rel]

Someone has to sit down and scan it all in, after all. So, whoever is doing that really needs to respond to this thread.

Am I to understand that one of the points of your argument is, "Well, somebody went to all the trouble of violating the copyright and making it available for download, so the least I could do is download a copy in honor of their hard work."?

Just bizarre.

 

[med stud]

I don't have stats to back this up but I believe I've read that most musicians signed with labels get about 8 cents for every dollar in sales. From what I've heard even many big bands recoup little on their record deals and make most of their money off of concerts and touring.

That is correct. I read in a paper somewhere that the music records are mainly commercials for the artist. Selling t-shirts and doing concerts is what makes them rich. It's logical; if you sell 1 000 000 CDs for 1,6 $ profit per CD will give you 1 600 000 dollars. It's much but it wont let you live like a rock star.

So when buying music records you are in effect paying for the CEOs of the company to live like rock stars. You might think this is good or not but most people want to support the musician, hence why so very few thinks it morally wrong to download mp3s.

But I think people's attitude about the RPG industry is different. At least I have bought the books that I downloaded and liked; not because I like the book feeling but because I think the producer deserves my support. I dont think Im alone and not even in minority with this attitude.

 

[Slife]

Does that seem fair to the people who are putting on the play? The people who snuck in the back door can say all day long that they wouldn't have paid full price to see the play anyway and so no money is lost by the actors. But it is still a slap in the face to the folks who are already being paid a pittance for their work. They spent time that they could have spent with family or friends or working or gaming and instead they spent it making this product. And what you're saying is that that time is worth nothing.

Yes - to anyone who didn't want it. Lets say I offer someone who doesn't like pickles some pickles, or give you some turtle-food (assuming, of course, you don't have a turtle). Value is relative. To some, the concert isn't worth the $25 dollar ticket price, so they won't pay it. Besides, your metaphor is inherently flawed - a better example would be someone who bought a ticket giving away free videotapes of the preformance.

 

[Umbran]

Here's my train of thought: If most people who download illegal copies wouldn't pay for it anyway if they couldn't download it, then they wouldn't have the product in possession. And that's perfectly OK.

Yet here they are, in possession of a copy. That's the part that doesn't add up if it's not a lost sale.

The flaw in your train of thought, Henry, is that you are assuming that "want" is digital. In your scheme, there are two states - "I don't want it" and "I want it in full". But desire is analog

Let us say the product costs $20. You look at it and say, "I like some bits, but I don't think this is worth the full price. If it were priced at $10 I might, but as it is, I will not buy the product."

If this person pirates the book, it is not a full lost sale, because if piracy were not available, they'd not pay the price. The company never could have gotten the sale, and so didn't lose it to piracy.

 

[Rel]

Yes - to anyone who didn't want it. Lets say I offer someone who doesn't like pickles some pickles, or give you some turtle-food (assuming, of course, you don't have a turtle). Value is relative.

Of course it is. I never tried to suggest otherwise. But if it is worth nothing to you then don't download the file in the first place.

I notice that when I go to the box office to buy the ticket that they don't just let me pay what I think the performance will be worth to me (down to and including $0). Instead, the producer of the product sets the price and I decide that I either will or will not pay that price for the product offered. Stealing the product because I'm not willing to pay full price does not fit into my moral code.

 

[Henry]

The flaw in your train of thought, Henry, is that you are assuming that "want" is digital. In your scheme, there are two states - "I don't want it" and "I want it in full". But desire is analog
...If this person pirates the book, it is not a full lost sale, because if piracy were not available, they'd not pay the price. The company never could have gotten the sale, and so didn't lose it to piracy.

My thought is that the sale is still a loss, at least in part, and therefore still breaks the old law of supply and demand. To use the old adage, "calling it as one sees it," if it's a loss, it's a loss, whether in whole or in part.

Reading a book in a library, or thumbing it in a bookstore, is both legal and permissible by all three parties concerned - vendor, reseller, and consumer. In other words, when the reseller buys the book from the vendor, it's theirs to sell or give away - or even return, by the funky laws that govern book sales. That copy and that license has been transacted, and the only contract to worry about then is between reseller and consumer. Now, if you make a copy of said work, there's a NEW contract to deal with - between you and the vendor, and it's been breached.

Again, this is what I'm seeing by my reasoning, and it still breaks the basic law of supply and demand to say one doesn't want a thing - and then still take it anyway. I'm not trying to comment on ethics of it, because that's an issue that alone could bring entirely new laws to alter the way things are done about it. But just given the basic social and economic contracts that govern the situation as-is, I still have to just call it as I see it, and agree to disagree that "there is no loss if someone supposedly wouldn't buy it if they couldn't get a copy through illegal download."

Oh, and in answer to the question that "if I read the book in the store, is it illegal copying?" If I had eidetic memory, it could be.