Final Fantasy D20 Stuff, yet again...

[Creamsteak]

Intro, I've been working on different Final Fantasy D20 mechanics ever since I joined this community. Every five months or so I have a new implementation I want to try. The first one was mildly interesting, the second very successful, the third broken to shreds. This one has some potential, I think.

First of all, my problem has never been with actually writing a stand-alone class. That much I can pull together in 2-8 hours depending. My issue is always with the association and implentation of the the relationships between multiple classes. This time I've started with that relationship, and so-far it looks fairly strong.

The chart below details how I'm seeing the classes being related right now. I'm looking for comments on this. The six light colored squares at the center of the structure are the "core" classes. The dark adjacent squares are called "promotion" classes. A promotion class is a class a character can join when they reach a certain level in an associated core class. The closer a promotion class is to a core class, the easier it is to join that promotion class from the core class, however, no character is forced to move into a promotion class. The white squares on the outside of the construct are the prestige classes, which can be achieved from any path. Though they can be achieved from any path, the nearest advanced/core classes are the easiest method to reach these classes.

A couple questions I ask anyone familiar with FF 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and T are 1) Does this cover every FF character archetype? 2) Do these relationships and class types proper?

Here is the literal breakdown:

Core Classes
Black Mage
Monk
Red Mage
Thief
Warrior
White Mage

Promotion Classes
-> = Easy Promotion (Almost Automatic)
->-> = Simple Promotion (Some Requirements)
->->-> = Difficult Promotion (Many Requirements/High Level Requirements)
Black Mage -> Wizard (Black Wizard)
Black Mage ->-> Blue Mage
Black Mage ->->-> Chemist
Monk -> Master
Red Mage -> Red Wizard
Red Mage ->-> Blue Mage
Red Mage ->-> Chemist
Thief -> Hunter (Archer)
Warrior -> Knight
White Mage -> Priest (White Wizard)
White Mage ->-> Chemist
White Mage ->->-> Blue Mage

Prestige Classes
Bard
Berserker
Dancer
Dark Knight
Dragoon
Engineer
Geomancer
Loremaster
Master Crafter
Mediator
Monsterkin
Mystic Knight
Ninja
Oracle
Paladin
Sage
Samurai
Shaman
Summoner
Summonkin
Time Mage
Warlock

 

[LazerPointer]

Where's the calculator?

Looks pretty complete, other than that.

 

[Creamsteak]

Calculator, Mime, and all the FFT hero character classes would be considered epic prestige classes I think. Calculator least so, I could change it's slot out with the crafter. I've never figured out how to rationalize a character that uses enemies statistics to effect them with regular spell effects. It's meta-weird in a lotta ways, so I struggle with it.

 

[Creamsteak]

Updated attachment. I'll see if I can't get some core class action complete by the end of the week.

 

[SylverFlame]

Looks good. You've put a fair bit of work into this. I am wondering if this will be your growth pattern. For instance, will you have class level requirements on the "moderate" classes?

 

[Creamsteak]

will you have class level requirements on the moderate classes?

There will be requirements to move into the "moderate" classes. I'm not sure how I want to work it. I want to make staying a warrior instead of becomming a knight an option of equal value. I want to make staying a thief instead of moving into Hunter (also called archer) an option of equal value. I also want to balance black wizards with black mages, and black mages with warlocks, and everything in between.

I know that one method I plan to employ for classes like summoner and time mage is a "spell list template" that takes over from a certain level spell on. For instance, there wouldn't be any 1st level summons, just 3rd level or 5th level and greater.

It's going to come out looking really bad at first, but once I temper the material a bit it should start to make sense.

 

[SylverFlame]

The "Spell Leveling" as I'll call the whole "no summons below level 3" makes a lot of sense. Another option would be to limit or specialize the classes the farther from center you go. For instance, a Black Mage is a good all-round spell caster, not being great at any one thing. The Black Wizard, however, can level cities like a god, but has no healing or single target spells. Though both can drop a fireball, the BW is a lot better at it, while the BM can cast smaller spells like magic missile that the BW can't (or isn't good at).

It is, in my opinion one way to do it, but you'd have to realize that by going through BM, the BW would still have some of those low level spells.

The other option is to limit low level classes. For instance, maybe BM is only a 5 to 10 level class, at which point you have to move onto a Moderate class you qualify for or another Core class.

 

[Creamsteak]

I'm having serious trouble trying to figure out "why" I should change the monk/thief/warrior. Fighters, monks, and rogues are all shoe-ins for these classes. Black Mage and White Mage are just sorcerer's with different spell lists (going by FF1 examlple here), and Red Mage is either a modified bard or modified cleric depending on how you take the class.

I might just do spell list refits for the cores.

 

[Estlor]

If I can have a moment to ramble, here's some thoughts from me:

Based on the cores you currently have listed, it appears you're going to have the Red Mage play some role different than his normal FF1 or FF5 roles. Further, you're implying anyone can start out as a monk, thief, warrior, or other color mage, but to be a chemist requires leveling as a mage.

First of all, why should the Black Mage and Black Wizard and the White Mage and White Wizard be separate? It would seem more logical to make one class a master of destructive magic (Wizard) and one a master of constructive magic (Priest). This rolls them all into one grouping and helps to differ classes by letting you build new things into them consistant with the millions of FF1, FF4, FF5, and FFT classes of similar names. Then, unless you WANT a different role for Red Wizard, make the Red Wizard an advanced class similar to the D&D Mystic Thiurge that mixes elements of both but grants other powers as well. Finally, I'd consider making the Chemist a core class that builds down a different path. Or leave Chemist alone, but it seems odd you have to be a spellcaster to become a Chemist.

Dunno, I'm just rambling.

 

[Fieari]

It sounds to me like the only difference between a Black Mage and a Black Wizard is that Black Wizards are higher level Black Mages. Couldn't you just let that be the way it works? I mean... really... what's the difference? What would make ANYONE want to be a black mage over a black wizard?