D&D 3E/3.5 Finally got a 4E cleric to feel like 3.5
That's true, it probably does go overboard with the healing and as he levels up and gets access to better healing some of the less effective ones can be retrained out. And I was probably overcompensating a touch for having only 1 healing word. Of course the groups I play with usually have the tactical acumen of lemmings so I like healers to go overboard.
All I'm saying is make sure you know what you're losing and what you're getting:
Differences between Paladin and Hybrid Paladin:
Armor (Plate and Heavy Shield) (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Channel Divinity (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Lay on Hands (can't even take this as a Hybrid Talent)
Divine Challenge requires the use of your once per round Immediate (reaction) action to deal it's damage (this essentially limits powers you can pick from - see below).
Differences between Cleric and Hybrid Cleric:
Armor (Chain) (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Channel Divinity (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Ritual Casting (feat)
Modified Healing Word (1/enc instead of 2/enc) (loss of power)
*NOTE: Healer's Lore only works with Cleric powers.
You have four options to spend your ONE Hybrid Talent feat on at level 1 and IIRC you don't get another pick until level 11.
Hybrid restrictions:
Yes you get twice as many power to pick from, BUT....
You are required to have one of each type from each class (at-will, encounter, daily, utility). At first level this manifests only in the at-wills as this is the only area you have 2 choices. Once you hit level 3 you'll be forced to pick up an encounter power of the other class (if you have a level 1 Paladin Enc. then you'll have to get a level 3 Cleric Enc.). You'll be limited to the STR based Paladin powers as you don't have the CHA to make any of those useful. In Cleric you'll have a little more leeway, but you'll have to keep up both a magic weapon AND a magic Holy Symbol/implement as you gain levels to keep your WIS based powers competitive and forget rider effects based on CHA for either class...this makes some powers less than useful. If you want to apply your Divine Challenge damage to anything you'll have to avoid powers that are "Immediate" (interrupt or reaction) as they will compete for your once per round action.
Differences between Paladin and Hybrid Paladin:
Armor (Plate and Heavy Shield) (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Channel Divinity (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Lay on Hands (can't even take this as a Hybrid Talent)
Divine Challenge requires the use of your once per round Immediate (reaction) action to deal it's damage (this essentially limits powers you can pick from - see below).
Differences between Cleric and Hybrid Cleric:
Armor (Chain) (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Channel Divinity (feat - Hybrid Talent)
No Ritual Casting (feat)
Modified Healing Word (1/enc instead of 2/enc) (loss of power)
*NOTE: Healer's Lore only works with Cleric powers.
You have four options to spend your ONE Hybrid Talent feat on at level 1 and IIRC you don't get another pick until level 11.
Hybrid restrictions:
Yes you get twice as many power to pick from, BUT....
You are required to have one of each type from each class (at-will, encounter, daily, utility). At first level this manifests only in the at-wills as this is the only area you have 2 choices. Once you hit level 3 you'll be forced to pick up an encounter power of the other class (if you have a level 1 Paladin Enc. then you'll have to get a level 3 Cleric Enc.). You'll be limited to the STR based Paladin powers as you don't have the CHA to make any of those useful. In Cleric you'll have a little more leeway, but you'll have to keep up both a magic weapon AND a magic Holy Symbol/implement as you gain levels to keep your WIS based powers competitive and forget rider effects based on CHA for either class...this makes some powers less than useful. If you want to apply your Divine Challenge damage to anything you'll have to avoid powers that are "Immediate" (interrupt or reaction) as they will compete for your once per round action.
Yeah...my mistake...I compiled that from CB which isn't exactly the best choice, but you start with any "shared" armor proficiencies right? So in this case since Paladin and Cleric both have Leather, Hide, and Chain you get all those for free. As a side note CB will allow you to pick the Cleric Hybrid Talent for Chainmail which of course does nothing for you.
these are true for most balanced pure clerics and paladins as well. you shouldnt list them under hybrid drawbacks.
as for rider effects based on cha, a lot of them are still worthwhile due to healers lore. at level 1 astral seal still heals 7 HP.
also, you are comparing the full paladin to the half paladin- not to the cleric|paladin when you say you "lose" lay on hands. a fair assesment is to say you replace it with healing word, which is better.
the lost healing word is tough, but power and feat choices let you decide how to compensate.
well now you're just reaching.
renau1g
First Post
I don't think Covert is reaching, he's bringing up a legitimate consideration. You need to be aware that you might not be able to take one of your move actions, I don't see it happening too often, but going in with your eyes open, but you usually have 3 battles in an LFR module so it might be 1/session. Now, you can always charge if you're not adjacent.
@Phil500: Are you trying to win some kind of debate? You came asking for advice. I offered what I thought were some tidbits that you may not have considered and just asked a single question.
Do you know what you're getting for what you're giving up?
You seem focused on a few small points and anything else I bring up you simply dismiss as not relevant. I'm not here to convince you that your build is wrong or right or best for what you want or that my ideas are better. The fact of the matter is that everything has an opportunity cost associated with it no matter how small. The importance of those costs are up to the individual player.
Your assertion "well now you're just reaching." says to me that that consideration means nothing to you, not that is isn't a valid consideration. Please refrain from assigning your personal opinion to a statement of fact.
Do you know what you're getting for what you're giving up?
You seem focused on a few small points and anything else I bring up you simply dismiss as not relevant. I'm not here to convince you that your build is wrong or right or best for what you want or that my ideas are better. The fact of the matter is that everything has an opportunity cost associated with it no matter how small. The importance of those costs are up to the individual player.
Your assertion "well now you're just reaching." says to me that that consideration means nothing to you, not that is isn't a valid consideration. Please refrain from assigning your personal opinion to a statement of fact.
This is incorrect. The multiclass feat gives you the use of what would normally be an encounter healing power ONLY 1/day.
