Shadowdark Finally Played Shadowdark

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd definitely prefer a AD&D-inspired game to Shadowdark. Sadly, the OSR is stuck on B/X.

Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures, a zero-prep OSR roleplaying game you can play in an afternoon

Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures is a zero-prep roleplaying game you can play in an afternoon

www.flatlandgames.com

Through Sunken Lands and Other Adventures from Flatland Games

Grizzled Adventurers from Flatland Games

These are AD&D-derived games (although they use playbooks by default to build characters, rather than traditional character creation, although you end up with very recognizable AD&D-adjacent characters) and they each have fantastic additional systems added, particularly in the create-an-adventure-on-the-fly space.

If Flatland ever wanted to go for a more deluxe treatment via Kickstarter, I firmly believe that Beyond the Wall, in particular, would be a major OSR player. As it is, it's beloved.

Note that each game has its own tone. For a sword and sorcery tone, go with Through Sunken Lands, although you can use the modules from all three lines.

 

[nevin]

I am curious why utility spells would be unreliable. And why anyone would enjoy having unreliable abilities.

 

[Retreater]

Why? Does the magic work differently? Where's the in-fiction justification for your claim?

It's not "in-fiction" as OSR titles are not (in my opinion) fiction-first games. Instead, they reward clever planning and the use of resources to navigate challenges.

If all magic must work the same in Shadowdark, then it must all be reliable, else the system fails to reward clever planning, leaving the whole venture to a coin flip. The hallmark of the OSR is that clever planning needs to be rewarded, that player agency is a GM virtue. As long as magic works as it does in Shadowdark, this cannot be true.

How many times has a plan hinged on the ability to turn a character invisible or give the ability to fly/levitate/spider climb. After the plan is forged with deliberation, a 50/50 chance can make the spellcaster unable to use the magic for 24 hours. In my case, I had to vacate a crumbling tower and had the foresight to take feather fall. I should be safe, right? Nope. 50/50 chance of spell failure. Nothing you can do - you're dead from impact.

 

[Retreater]

I am curious why utility spells would be unreliable. And why anyone would enjoy having unreliable abilities.

All spells have like a 50/50 chance of not working each time you cast them. If you fail to cast it, it's gone for the day.

So you could have a priest who fails his first cast of cure for the day and no one is getting healed all day.

Granted the DC is 11 for a 1st level spell. There's a chance you might have a +1 or +2 bonus to the cast, so you might have slightly better than 50/50 odds, but it's not guaranteed.

 

[nevin]

All spells have like a 50/50 chance of not working each time you cast them. If you fail to cast it, it's gone for the day.

So you could have a priest who fails his first cast of cure for the day and no one is getting healed all day.

Granted the DC is 11 for a 1st level spell. There's a chance you might have a +1 or +2 bonus to the cast, so you might have slightly better than 50/50 odds, but it's not guarantee

50/50 odds to use an ability seems unfun

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

All spells have like a 50/50 chance of not working each time you cast them.

Please stop saying that. It's not true. Spellcasting success rates are dependent on your casting stat. And some spells also are cast with advantage by default and other spells can be cast with advantage based on talent rolls.

 

[TiQuinn]

I never played 1E, but I played AD&D 2E for close to a decade. As I understand it, the systems are similar mechanically.

I don't think it felt like AD&D.
In AD&D you could count on magic working. You can't have a utility spell fail when it's absolutely necessary for pulling off the plan.
In AD&D races/ancestries matter. (Darkvision, magic resistance, ability score adjustments.) They basically do nothing in Shadowdark.
In AD&D you can get skills, non-weapon proficiencies, weapon expertise - if you want to use those options.
In AD&D your ability score bonuses weren't as impactful as they are in Shadowdark, which was seemingly designed for a different method of generation.
In AD&D the monsters had more that a paragraph of detail, including ecology, background information, treasure charts, and a variety of mechanics.
In AD&D you could customize your thief with different percentages in thief skills, your cleric could be different depending on spheres, and your wizard could specialize in schools of magic. Druids, rangers, paladins, and bards gave interesting options as well.

I'd definitely prefer a AD&D-inspired game to Shadowdark. Sadly, the OSR is stuck on B/X.

Have you tried OSE Advanced?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not "in-fiction" as OSR titles are not (in my opinion) fiction-first games. Instead, they reward clever planning and the use of resources to navigate challenges.

If all magic must work the same in Shadowdark, then it must all be reliable, else the system fails to reward clever planning, leaving the whole venture to a coin flip. The hallmark of the OSR is that clever planning needs to be rewarded, that player agency is a GM virtue. As long as magic works as it does in Shadowdark, this cannot be true.

How many times has a plan hinged on the ability to turn a character invisible or give the ability to fly/levitate/spider climb. After the plan is forged with deliberation, a 50/50 chance can make the spellcaster unable to use the magic for 24 hours. In my case, I had to vacate a crumbling tower and had the foresight to take feather fall. I should be safe, right? Nope. 50/50 chance of spell failure. Nothing you can do - you're dead from impact.

Well, there's the problem. I don't agree that OSR games aren't or can't be fiction-first. I've always played any D&D-style game fiction-first, and am happy to change the rules to make that happen if needed (which is less often then you think). To me, it's about exploring an imaginary world and having mechanics that adequately represent the elements of that world, not following a ruleset wherever it might lead because the mechanics are more important than the fiction.

 

[TwoSix]

Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures, a zero-prep OSR roleplaying game you can play in an afternoon

Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures is a zero-prep roleplaying game you can play in an afternoon

www.flatlandgames.com

Through Sunken Lands and Other Adventures from Flatland Games

Grizzled Adventurers from Flatland Games

These are AD&D-derived games (although they use playbooks by default to build characters, rather than traditional character creation, although you end up with very recognizable AD&D-adjacent characters) and they each have fantastic additional systems added, particularly in the create-an-adventure-on-the-fly space.

If Flatland ever wanted to go for a more deluxe treatment via Kickstarter, I firmly believe that Beyond the Wall, in particular, would be a major OSR player. As it is, it's beloved.

Note that each game has its own tone. For a sword and sorcery tone, go with Through Sunken Lands, although you can use the modules from all three lines.

I try to talk these games up at every opportunity. It's a shame they aren't more well-known.

 

[Micah Sweet]

All spells have like a 50/50 chance of not working each time you cast them. If you fail to cast it, it's gone for the day.

So you could have a priest who fails his first cast of cure for the day and no one is getting healed all day.

Granted the DC is 11 for a 1st level spell. There's a chance you might have a +1 or +2 bonus to the cast, so you might have slightly better than 50/50 odds, but it's not guaranteed.

Personally I wish more magic in D&D-style games was less reliable (but still powerful).