Find the path -- destination definable by effect?

[Mr. Patient]

It's pretty clear that find the path doesn't allow you to define destinations in reference to creatures or objects that may be found there. But what about defining a destination by an effect present there? For example, let's say there is a magical storm that stays in a certain fixed position. Is the geographical center of said storm a valid destination? What about the epicenter of a natural earthquake that occurred yesterday, or last month?

Here's the spell, for reference:

Find the Path
Divination
Level: Brd 6, Clr 6, Drd 6, Knowledge 6, Travel 6
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 3 rounds
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless)
The recipient of this spell can find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specified destination, be it the way into or out of a locale. The locale can be outdoors, underground, or even inside a maze spell. Find the path works with respect to locations, not objects or creatures at a locale. The location must be on the same plane as you are at the time of casting.

The spell enables the subject to sense the correct direction that will eventually lead it to its destination, indicating at appropriate times the exact path to follow or physical actions to take. For example, the spell enables the subject to sense trip wires or the proper word to bypass a glyph of warding. The spell ends when the destination is reached or the duration expires, whichever comes first. Find the path can be used to remove the subject and its companions from the effect of a maze spell in a single round.

This divination is keyed to the recipient, not its companions, and its effect does not predict or allow for the actions of creatures (including guardians).

Focus
A set of divination counters of the sort you favor.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr. Patient]

Anyone?

 

[frankthedm]

Anyone?

Seems to me a magical storm is an object.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Personal reading: Finding the heart of a magical storm would, IMO, count as "finding your way in to" a location. It's a 6th level spell, it should really have a use or two out of the dungeon or rock-paper-scissorsing Maze.

 

[Mr. Patient]

Seems to me a magical storm is an object.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but could you elaborate on your reasoning here? Is it an object only in the sense that it's not a creature or a location? And what about the earthquake example?

Thanks again.

 

[Cheiromancer]

My first reaction would be that find the path cannot lead one to things that can be carried or which move around. Most creatures and objects fit this criterion. Most of the typical uses of the spell (finding one's way through a labyrinth, cave system or sewers or something) are immobile, so it seems to fit, too.

"Mobile" should be taken in a relative sense. So if you are lost in the sewers of a city and want to find your way back to the surface, then find the path would work. It shouldn't matter if the city floats across the landscape- it counts as immobile if you are on it.

I would allow one to use the spell to locate the center of a magical storm or the epicenter of an earthquake.

 

[Jack Simth]

You need to be careful with that, though; you don't usually want to let the spell no-counter locate someone by way of an activity - e.g., the location of the Mad Wizard of Areleth's most recent casting of Magnificent Mansion.

 

[Cheiromancer]

You need to be careful with that, though; you don't usually want to let the spell no-counter locate someone by way of an activity - e.g., the location of the Mad Wizard of Areleth's most recent casting of Magnificent Mansion.

Suppose the Mad Wizard of Areleth is one of your adventuring buddies, and is standing right there with you. He had cast Magnificent Mansion earlier that day, for use as a base in the Labyrinth of Peril, which you are all exploring. Now the party is having trouble finding its way back. Couldn't find the path be used to find the way back to the location of your own camp?

I understand your point, but I am struggling to find a wording that distinguishes the acceptable cases from the unacceptable cases.

 

[cheshire_grin]

You need to be careful with that, though; you don't usually want to let the spell no-counter locate someone by way of an activity - e.g., the location of the Mad Wizard of Areleth's most recent casting of Magnificent Mansionfootstep.

If you're going for broken, there you go.

 

[cheshire_grin]

Suppose the Mad Wizard of Areleth is one of your adventuring buddies, and is standing right there with you. He had cast Magnificent Mansion earlier that day, for use as a base in the Labyrinth of Peril, which you are all exploring. Now the party is having trouble finding its way back. Couldn't find the path be used to find the way back to the location of your own camp?

Personally I would say that you can't use it to find the "epicenter of an earthquake that happened yesterday", either; the spell has no concept of time (the location must be on the same plane as you at the time of casting), so things that don't currently exist, that aren't at least semi-permanent, etc, can't be located.

That seems to fit with the intent of the spell (you could always use it to locate "the forest clearing we camped in" or even "our campsite" rather than "the last location the Mad Wizard cast MM", for example) and prevent any broken usage.

If you want a "locate last action" spell, research one--it would probably be at least one level higher than find the path, though, IMO.