D&D General Finished reading my 4th "History of D&D" book. Thoughts.

[Reynard]

Of Dice and Men. What was this? A good half of the book is the author telling about his friends modern era vampire world homebrew 3.5E D&D game. This is bare bones for any real info aside from the bullet points. Dave and Gary met. Made D&D. They split. TSR rose to power. TSR died. WotC! BTW his description of "D&D Next" as per Mark M... what happened to that game? Simplified Rules but modular for playstyles. Greyhawk. Faerun. I'm guessing it's because Hasbro assumed direct control? Oh and the almost complete lack of 4th ed. "3rd ed was great..... then 5th appeared!" Really odd duck book.

An interesting book to follow up this with is Masters of Doom. It is about the development of the Doom video game, but the development of that game was built around Carmack's D&D campaign.

 

[DarkCrisis]

An interesting book to follow up this with is Masters of Doom. It is about the development of the Doom video game, but the development of that game was built around Carmack's D&D campaign.

Thanks! I'll put it on my To Read list.

 

[Mull Ponders]

There is also the Hawk & Moor series, 1-5 by Kent David Kelly. He has a standalone called HAWK & MOOR - The Steam Tunnel Incident: The Tragedy of James Dallas Egbert III, which is as good as I have read about that event. The entire run has plenty of footnotes documenting his sources.

 

[DarkCrisis]

There is also the Hawk & Moor series, 1-5 by Kent David Kelly. He has a standalone called HAWK & MOOR - The Steam Tunnel Incident: The Tragedy of James Dallas Egbert III, which is as good as I have read about that event. The entire run has plenty of footnotes documenting his sources.

All I need is Mazes and Monsters (and Tom Hanks) for that tale ;-)

 

[Blue Orange]

Yeah, I had Slaying the Dragon and picked up Game Wizards in a used bookstore as I had heard it covered the early days and wanted to read that first as Slaying the Dragon was more about the later TSR era.

I think I bought Empire of Imagination more for the cover TBH...great redo of the Unearthed Arcana cover.

 

[Meech17]

The first one I read was:

Empire of Imagination. A very Pro-Gary Gygax book. I really enjoyed it. I say "Pro" because while fun to read it displays Gary as an old gamer who just wanted to make games for gamers until a bunch of evil people took it all away. And, to quote Kenobi, "From a certain point of view" that is correct. Through every book one thing is clear, he was done dirty by those he called "Friend". The old tale of money and friends as old as time itself.

Next was:

Slaying the Dragon. A more serious take that also showed the other side of Gary and his issues with Dave etc etc. I first see Dave had issues with committing to the work while Gary turned all of Daves notes etc into a functional game and product. Things run badly once TSR really started making money. Things even getting worse when Gary went to LA (and started living phat) and his co-owners back home running things into the ground. Gary of course came home to try to fix it but it was far to late and again knives in the dark. And of course the 2E and up into WotC. Lorraine Williams comes off as not the witch people like to make her out to be.... more or less. She like everyone else preferred money and made awful business decisions. BTW TSR in its heyday sounded like an amazing place to work... before the dark times and they delved too greedily and too deep.

And then:

Game Wizards. A more in depth version of Gary and Dave. Dave the inventor. Gary the innovator. Mostly the same as Slaying above but as I said a bit more on Gary v Dave. One thing that really stood out was a bit more on the WotC era. Peter Adkison, much like Gary wanted to make "games for gamers" but unfortunately he later sold WotC to Hasbro and well.... Gamers want to make games but tend to not make good business decisions. Corps want to make a product.... TSR in 2E. WotC via Hasbro... pick your poison I guess.

Finally:

Of Dice and Men. What was this? A good half of the book is the author telling about his friends modern era vampire world homebrew 3.5E D&D game. This is bare bones for any real info aside from the bullet points. Dave and Gary met. Made D&D. They split. TSR rose to power. TSR died. WotC! BTW his description of "D&D Next" as per Mark M... what happened to that game? Simplified Rules but modular for playstyles. Greyhawk. Faerun. I'm guessing it's because Hasbro assumed direct control? Oh and the almost complete lack of 4th ed. "3rd ed was great..... then 5th appeared!" Really odd duck book.

If I had to pick ONE to recommend. Probably Game Wizards, but Slaying is really good as well. Do both!

Fun reads, looking forward to a new one down the line that incorporates the behind the scenes of the Hasbro era... if that ever happens.

I've read both Of Dice and Men, and Slaying the Dragon. Like @Parmandur says, Dice and Men feels less like a history book, and more like a love letter to the hobby. Like if someone wanted to know why I enjoy D&D and what makes it fun and special, this would be a good book to point them to. It was a fun light-hearted read.

Slaying the Dragon was really great. What you mention in your blurb I agree with 100%. TSR of the 70's/early 80's seems like a magical place. Creatives allowed to run rampant. Gaming throughout the work day. I especially love where he talks about the artists, and how they shared the warehouse space. All being on the payroll and just being free to paint with minimal supervision and micromanagement. The interview with Brom particularly interested me. The pacing was also really great. It matched the energy of the company itself. Just sky rocketing up and up and up giving you this high as you read it.. Then during the long and seemingly inevitable descent the anxiety creeps in, where you keep reading, and thinking "How could it possibly get any worse", then you turn the page and somehow it totally gets worse. Finally leveling out with the WoTC acquisition and Peter Adkison going around trying to make amends and repair crumbling bridges gives it a gentle ending.

I think Ben Riggs (slaying the dragon) is researching the WotC era. One possible good thing about the Hasbro era is since they are a public company, there may be more info publicly available

The end of the book makes it seem that way. He talks about how he has so much more additional content and interviews that didn't make the cut.. I'd love to see a part two.

Also, I hope Lorraine Williams reads the book and sees that he didn't crucify her, and perhaps he can get an interview with her. I'd love to hear her side of things.

Up next on my to-read list is Game Wizards. I've also heard Playing At the World is a good read. Has anyone read that one?

 

[Alzrius]

I bought a copy of Hawk & Moor vol. 1 a while back, and still haven't got around to reading it.

That said, the book I'd most recommend would be Joseph Laycock's Dangerous Games: What the Moral Panic over Role-Playing Games Says about Play, Religion, and Imagined Worlds, which does an excellent job getting into the minds of the people who bought into the "Satanic Panic" and similar incidents surrounding tabletop RPGs.

Also, Flint Dille's The Gamesmaster: Almost Famous in the Geek '80s too. The book isn't D&D specific, but covers a lot of the rise of some of the biggest geek pop culture brands in the '80s by someone who was there. The book's organization is poor, but that's more than made up for by how engaging Dille's writing is; he has this conversational style that's very comfortable to read.

 

[Clint_L]

What you mention in your blurb I agree with 100%. TSR of the 70's/early 80's seems like a magical place.

I have completely the opposite feeling about TSR of the 70s and early 80s. Or TSR in general. From everything I've read about it, it sounds like total amateur hour. I would be very unhappy working in that environment. And I'm a dude; it sounds like a nightmare for the female staff.

Note that the stuff about Brom and the artists' warehouse is more from the late 80s/90s 2e era. That's hard for me to judge as I'm not a professional artist, but being allowed to paint all day with minimal supervision probably did feel pretty ideal. There's a reason TSR was on the verge of bankruptcy on several occasions, though.

 

[Meech17]

I have completely the opposite feeling about TSR of the 70s and early 80s. Or TSR in general. From everything I've read about it, it sounds like total amateur hour. I would be very unhappy working in that environment. And I'm a dude; it sounds like a nightmare for the female staff.

Note that the stuff about Brom and the artists' warehouse is more from the late 80s/90s 2e era. That's hard for me to judge as I'm not a professional artist, but being allowed to paint all day with minimal supervision probably did feel pretty ideal. There's a reason TSR was on the verge of bankruptcy on several occasions, though.

You're probably right. Stories about people falling in through the roof of your office while you're trying to work, or having to sit with your foot tucked uncomfortably in the wheels of your chair because the floor was so uneven if you didn't, you'd roll away from your desk. These sound fun as an outsider looking in.. And ten years ago when I was in my early 20's I'd probably be able look past all these things and find a way to still have fun. Me now in my 30's would probably stop having fun very quickly.

As someone who works in a non-creative industry and a boring office, it did just tickle me a bit and make me think "What if"

 

[Reynard]

. I've also heard Playing At the World is a good read. Has anyone read that one?

Playing at the World is a little less accessible than The Game Wizards. It is very good but it is a rigorous academic history of the development of D&D.

Everyone who has ever argued about the "right" way to play D&D should read The Elusive Shift.