Firbolgs - A PC Race From VOLO'S GUIDE TO MONSTERS

Interesting. A bit of a departure from depictions in earlier editions. Much more nature oriented...seems they're playing up the fey aspect based on the Celtic origins of the race.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I wonder how the discussion around here would go should Chapter 3 contains a 5e version of the voadkyn as well...

 

[One_Shots]

So I stand by my statement of "underused" and "ignored".

So because you didn't use them, millions of other people didn't either, and nobody played any other edition but the currently supported one during that period.

Well done, you've earned yourself an ignore.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Okay, let's do this:

1e Firbolg:
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View attachment 77619
source: Monster Manual 2
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Story
They are cautious, crafty, and have considerable magical power. They have learned to distrust (and fear) humans, and will be found only in remote and wild places. They enjoy appearing as little people and duping humans out of their treasure. They gots shamans that also use illusion spells.

Abilities

• Uses two-handed swords or halberds in one hand, or double-sized weapons that deal 2x damage.
• Deflect missiles 2/round
• SLA's: Detect Magic, Diminution (as a potion of, lets you shrink between 5% and, I guess, nothingness?), Fool's Gold (illusory gold), Forget (MiB memory-eraser), and Alter Self
• magic resistance

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2e firbolg:
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View attachment 77620
sources: Monstrous Manual, Complete Book of Humanoids, Giantcraft
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Story
10 ft. + tall and 800+ lbs, long hair, thick beards, pink skin, blonde/red hair (very nordic!) with a smooth, thick, bass voice. Live in forests and hills, but like to stay remote. On good terms with druids and fey (including elves), but relationships are cold. Like to meet members of other races in disguise, and like to "prank" people out of their money. They've got a clan structure with a shaman, and live as gatherers or nomads. Meet 1/year at a great enclave of all the clans at the fall solstice - it's a big party that also helps settle clan disputes. They clear lots of trees (to make big houses and burn in their massive fireplaces). They trade their strength for food with their neighbors, hunt, gather, and have a small field. Not a lot of meat, but the parties have roasts. The like storm giants, fight against other giant-kin, avoid true giants, other intelligent creatures tend to leave them alone.

In the Complete Book of Humanoids they are described as working together in their battles, adventuring to learn about magic and gain treasure.

In Giantcraft, we learn that in FR, they're not part of the Ordning, they're democratic (the vote!) and egalitarian (believing acts are more important than birth). They like a particular code they keep written and in an amulet. They're charitable, honest, believe in equality and sacrifice for one's people.

Abilities
Basically the same as 1e. In the Complete Book of Humanoids, the SLA's can't be used in a fight, they "never wear armor of any sort, nor do they carry shields," they have an XP penalty (2x for Fighter, 3x for Shaman), and a fear of mobs. In Giantcraft, their lack of armor is because it is seen as "cowardly" to wear armor, and no one mentions their magic resistance.
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3e firbolg:
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View attachment 77621
source: monster manual 2​

Story
Basically the same: reclusive, crafty, good-natured giant-kin. Noted that they have druid leaders rather than shaman leaders (favored class: druid).

Abilities

• Huckin' rocks and catching rocks
• Trample
• Fast healing (?!)
• SLA's: alter self, detect magic, feeblemind (probably replacing forget) and know direction (because druid?)

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4e firbolg:
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View attachment 77624
source: monster manual 2​

Story
Welp.

They live in the Feywild now, and they're unaligned. They're "agents of destiny, death, and the unforgiving wild." They created the Wild Hunt, and their lairs perch on precarious bits of rock (high peaks, floating earthmotes, etc.). They worship Sehanine, Melora, and the Raven Queen as three goddesses (Maiden, Mother, and Crone), and their preistesses are females called Moon Seers. They want promises from their enemies, not wealth or trophies. They can be called upon to hunt those who have broken oaths. They'll occasionally work with centaurs and their hunts are with hounds of the Wild Hunt.

Abilities
4e, so it depends on which "role" you're talkin' about. However, all had moonfire, which prohibits the target from benefitting from cover or concealment (kind of like a faerie fire effect, I guess). They were vulnerable to Necrotic damage, which prohibited their regeneration (?!) from working.
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...and then we've got these dudes.

As is 5e's wont, I think it's trying to thread the lore from all four editions through itself and come out with something. Thematically, narratively, I think this thing resonates - it peels a bit more from 3e/4e, but "I'm a nice and reclusive giant!" isn't exactly super defining. Even their Giantcraft description makes me groan as it gushes on about how generically Nice And Good these guys are. The only lore better than this so far has actually, IMO, been the 4e lore, though I think framing them as fey antagonists who invented the Wild Hunt is all unnecessary. These firbolgs can contain within them the story of 3e/2e/1e firbolgs with plenty of room to spare for being close to the fey, and finding them as 4e firbolgs wouldn't be entirely out of place, either.

Ability-wise....you know, they kept the SLA's that were consistent from 1e to 3e: something to change their appearance, and detect magic. They can't alter memory, make illusory money, slam your INT into the basement, line you in blue-white flames, or...know which way north is?...anymore, but those abilities don't seem too core to the critter. Knocking away items wasn't something 3e or 4e cared about at all.

The biggest change is making them Medium - no big weapons.

And that's kind of a deeper issue in 5e in general, exhibited also with Goliaths. What people want is to carry around a bit weapon and deal a ton of damage with it. That's a bit much for a racial trait in 5e (well, it was probably a bit much for a racial trait in any e...2e gave you XP penalties and deprived you of armor...3e had an ECL of +18 (woah!)).

That's a legit desire, though, and it's something I'd like to see mechanically addressed so that goliaths and firbolgs and our future Powerful Build races can all go around one-handing greatswords or whatever.

...maybe a feat that has powerful build as a prerequisite that lets you do that. Or, even, a Fighter subclass, so our Goliath barbarians and Firbolg druids don't necessarily benefit.

 

[Mistwell]

So because you didn't use them, millions of other people didn't either, and nobody played any other edition but the currently supported one during that period.

Well done, you've earned yourself an ignore.

Kinda going overboard there, aren't yah? He didn't say YOU underused them, he was saying the rules and adventures did. He wasn't speaking for your game...though you did appear to speak for "millions of others", which itself is a pretty massively hyperbolic statement. But throwing the guy on ignore (and publicly talking about doing it rather than just doing it) over than, with just 40 posts under your belt and therefore not much interaction with him? Seems extreme.

 

[Parmandur]

I wonder how the discussion around here would go should Chapter 3 contains a 5e version of the voadkyn as well...

Wouldn't be surprising...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you guys remember, the Goliath was originally cast as looking different than humans. They had Lidoderm's all over their body. I'm actually thinking of buying one of the Privateer Press Trollkin figures and using it as a Goliath

Wait, do 5e Goliaths not have lithoderms, inhumanly big frames, little to no hair, and black eyes?

Pfft. Good thing I can ignore that and use them as I have been. Lame.

 

[ferratus]

Aside: the evil counterpart to Firbolgs were Verbeegs which, after some laughable pun humour, don't amount to anything much.

Verbeegs are my absolute favourite giants. They fight dirty, they whisper "suggestions" into the dimwitted heads of other giants making them more agressive, and are malformed malcontents who are constantly on the lookout for their next scheme.

A Verbeeg giant used properly can be the best middle manager of monsters your campaign ever had.

 

[ferratus]

I think the 5e Firbolg write up has more in common with the (2e version) Firbolg than the Voadkyn.

No, the magical abilities are literally exactly the same as that of the Voadkyn. I will quote directly from 2e AD&D Monstrous Manual.

5e Disguise self ability. 2e: The only magical skill voadkyn have is the ability to polymorph into any humanoid figure, from 3 to 15 feet in height. They cannot become a specific individual, only a typical specimen of that race.


5e Invisibility Power. 2e: Wood giants can move silently in a forest, despite their great height, thus imposing a -4 penalty to opponents' surprise rolls. They can blend into forest vegetation, becoming effectively invisible. Only creatures able to detect invisible objects can see them. Although they are not invisible while attacking, they are extremely quick (Dexterity 16) and can move out of hiding, launch an arrow, and move back into hiding in the same round. (This is why hidden step suits the Voadkyn more)


5e Elf Friendship and Elven Names. 2e: The young are born and raised deep in the woods among the wood elves, away from prying eyes.
The strong bond between wood elves and wood giants goes back further than either race can remember. This may account for the elven abilities of the giants.

Plus the Voadkyn were much more elvish than the Firbolg. They traveled in the company of elves 60% of the time and used giant longbows for pete's sake. The Firbolg on the other hand lived in clearings on the frontier in log houses and primarily fought by illusions first to avoid the fight, before fighting with great strength and martial strategy. They did have shamans, but in 2e that was more "monster god cleric" than "druid".

 

[ferratus]

As is 5e's wont, I think it's trying to thread the lore from all four editions through itself and come out with something. Thematically, narratively, I think this thing resonates - it peels a bit more from 3e/4e, but "I'm a nice and reclusive giant!" isn't exactly super defining. Even their Giantcraft description makes me groan as it gushes on about how generically Nice And Good these guys are. The only lore better than this so far has actually, IMO, been the 4e lore, though I think framing them as fey antagonists who invented the Wild Hunt is all unnecessary. These firbolgs can contain within them the story of 3e/2e/1e firbolgs with plenty of room to spare for being close to the fey, and finding them as 4e firbolgs wouldn't be entirely out of place, either.

Yeah, blending the Voadkyn with the Firbolg does make the Firbolg more distinct. I do think the response has been largely positive, and generated more interest than either the 3e or 4e version. I've already moved on to applying the moniker of "Voadkyn" to a ranger conclave (making it more like the 4e warden) which Firbolgs will be particularly suited for.

And that's kind of a deeper issue in 5e in general, exhibited also with Goliaths. What people want is to carry around a bit weapon and deal a ton of damage with it.

Yep, that has always been the appeal of the Firbolg. I wanted to play a giant towering brute when I picked a Firbolg in the Complete Book of Humanoids, and 5e will never replicate that experience. That is pretty much where the negative reaction is coming from by some of the long time players in this thread.

Speaking of Goliaths, I can't wait until I get to have a Firbolg drop this line. "My kind have no names, but you humans call me a 'Goliath'".

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, blending the Voadkyn with the Firbolg does make the Firbolg more distinct. I do think the response has been largely positive, and generated more interest than either the 3e or 4e version. I've already moved on to applying the moniker of "Voadkyn" to a ranger conclave (making it more like the 4e warden) which Firbolgs will be particularly suited for.

It may not have been an accident that Voadkyn were quietly retired from the game after 2e, and 3e started the trend of Firbolgs picking up some of their traits. I don't think they popped up again in 3e or 4e at all in WotC products (though I think the Tome of Horrors had a Voadkyn).

But, it may have also been an attempt to suppress dat ass
View attachment 77627

I'd personally make an attempt to bring back Voadkyn as their own thing, but that's cuz I'm a weirdo. I like the new Firbolgs, and I like that they expand the old ones without replacing the old ones.