Firefly Reconsidered: Why Firefly Isn't "Hall of Fame" Great

Ryujin

Legend
Sense8 was fantastic and illustrates the problem with only considering shows that come to a conclusion. Had the producers not negotiated a final capstone episode to close the story, Sense8 would have been out of luck for consideration for HoF status if HoF criteria required the story to have a conclusion. It consistently got high reviews, it had a passionate fanbase, but it was deemed too small a fanbase to warrant the very high expense of the show (shot on multiple locations across the globe) by Netflix. And that would be a terrible reason to disqualify a series from HoF consideration.
I agree completely. It's also a show that seems to have gotten even more traction after the cancellation was announced. At least I started to notice people who had never commented on it, previously, suddenly doing so in rather high numbers.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Sense8 was a fresh and interesting take for a show. Though, several of the Sense8s were rather one dimensional and the writing was at times pretty bad. It had weak points, but a damn good premise, and yeap, it was hawt.

I thought Peacock's take on A Brave New World was one of the best takes i've seen on the story. They really did a good job of hitting the nature vs nurture argument. Also, made a post apocalypse sci-fi world seem believable from a tech perspective. Its a damn shame it got dropped by Peacock (which with it's astronomical price tag wasn't surprising) because it was set up for a rather potentially interesting and great second season. Oh, and it's super hawt.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
And by "hot" I mean exactly that, not exploititively sexual for the purpose of showing skin (I'm looking at YOU, GoT).

I have a number of folks I know who watched it not for the novel premise, plot, or characters, but because it was "hot". Since not all scenes mean the same thing to all people, I don't think we can flatly say that it wasn't "for the purpose of showing skin". There's an argument that it was unnecessary.
 
Last edited:

Stalker0

Legend
It shows that since the vast majority of shows are not allowed to finish, are forced to finish quickly and badly, or have their finishes interfered with by studio execs, the lack of or bad finish should not be held against the show.
So this is a strong statement, lets break it down for a moment.

The assumption here for our debate is that the vast majority of Hall of Fame worthy shows (because we are talking hall of fame, no one cares about the shows that were garbage to begin with). The shows either
  • Were cancelled before they ended, aka no ending.
  • Were cancelled after the last season started (meaning the team did not have a chance to set the last season as the finale season)
  • Had corporate interference in a way that was not typical for that show. (aka if the suits have been "interfering" in the hall of fame worthy show previously....we could consider their interference part of why the show is hall of fame worthy)
Number 2 is probably the most divisive statement... is it fair to say that a TV creative team should always be able to end a show given a full season? I personally think the answer is yes, as others have mentioned most teams work on a season at a time, so if you know ahead of time your ending....a season should be sufficient time to wrap up your current plotlines and indicate the fate of your characters. It may not be the original ending, but it can still be a good one.

The problem is....if we go with the idea of "the show got to go on as long as the creators intended".... well, the problem there is the majority of creators don't have a set end time, Babylon 5 was a unicorn in that from its conception it had a fully planned out arc. If we allow for this, many shows might have "needed" 2, 3, or even 4 seasons to end....and you have to call the ball at some point.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
I have a number of folks I know who watched it not for the novel premise, plot, or characters, but because it was "hot". Since not all scenes mean the same thing to all people, I don't think we can flatly say that it wasn't "for the purpose of showign skin". There's an argument that it was unnecessary.
Anything thats got nekid folks is going to get attention. Could they have told a story about 8 folks around the world being connected without any nudity? Sure, but in this case it was relevant. Sexuality, romance, and connection was a main theme of Sense8. I think it was used in a relevant and generally tasteful way. There were no random leaving a bathroom or exposition in a brothel "just because" scenes.
 


dragoner

KosmicRPG.com
I truly loved SGU, and couldn't get through even a single episode of SG-1 (I don't think I even knew that Atlantis had existed). SGU felt like a real show, more like prestige TV in terms of complexity and emotional realism. The fact that it went down in flames so quickly, and that so many SG-1 fans lobbied and cheered for its cancellation was the first time I fully realized that there's a version of genre fandom that I'll never understand. Just a huge gulf there, in terms of what we want out of narratives. Kind of a sad moment for me, to be honest, like losing your tribe.
SG1 is royalty of sci-fi, it had a who's who of actors from Outer Limits, Star Trek, X-Files, etc.; SGU was simply doomed if it could not get those fan groups on board, and as far as I know, it died for people not watching it. I know I signed off after getting attacked in the fan groups after noting as most here have is that the characters were unsympathetic, and as one found out about them, the less one liked them. A lot of the SG1 & Atlantis actors went on into Defiance, and Dark Matter, later to appear in the Expanse. It is funny that Atlantis has Aquaman himself in it as Ronon. Once the middle ground was gone with SGU, I just ignored it, I remember trying to watch an episode, not getting what was going on, and turning it to something else. The writing was awful, it did the wunderkind thing at the exact same time as the big alien invasion show that was on. I watched it again later, and it was funny to notice that never do any of the characters really gel with each other, and some, such as with Ming Na Wren, she was sidelined, just so the unknown girl that was kidnapped by aliens could come back with amazing powers
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
SG:U did try to make a Dr Baltar out of Carlye's character. I know many folks absolutely hate that type of character, but I love them. The bigger mistake was making the unskilled politician's daughter into some kind of destined savior character. Sometimes its nice to get Sci-Fi without all the fated destiny crap thats so common amongst the genre.
 

The "hurry up ending" thing has me thinking about an otherwise great series, "Sense8", which got cancelled and then was given the chance to run an abbreviated season to wrap things up due to public outcry. By necessity it wasn't as good as the series had otherwise been, but it at least wrapped things up fairly well. It was a SciFi show with a rather novel premise and had one of the hottest scenes I can remember in TV/streaming, that involved the entire main cast. And by "hot" I mean exactly that, not exploititively sexual for the purpose of showing skin (I'm looking at YOU, GoT).
Not a very related response but the “What’s Going On?” sequence, where they’re all singing it together in different places, is one of the most beautiful things I’ve seen in any show. I dropped the show toward the end, but I love a big swing, and that gonzo-wonderful moment alone—and everything that built up to making it so powerful—puts Sense8 into the stratosphere for me.

I’m getting misty just writing about it!
 

MarkB

Legend
Number 2 is probably the most divisive statement... is it fair to say that a TV creative team should always be able to end a show given a full season? I personally think the answer is yes, as others have mentioned most teams work on a season at a time, so if you know ahead of time your ending....a season should be sufficient time to wrap up your current plotlines and indicate the fate of your characters. It may not be the original ending, but it can still be a good one.
Some of that can depend upon how you're structuring the writing and filming. I don't know if it's still the case, but for early seasons of the new Doctor Who, a lot of episodes and even individual scenes in episodes were filmed vastly out of order, so even if you know early on in production that you need to change direction, that doesn't mean that you've only been working on the first couple of episodes so far, and can start making your changes from mid-season onwards. You may already have shot scenes for the finale, or at least finalised scripts, and if major changes need to be made, that means getting the writers back in and paying them for re-writes - and if the show's been cancelled, you certainly don't have extra budget to spend on re-writes.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top