First contact - science or magic

[Nellisir]

Magic, to me, is something that cannot occur by the laws (known or unknown) of the universe.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying "magic cannot occur" (although I believe that); I'm saying "magic is something that violates the laws of the universe". If it's possible, it's science. If it's impossible, it's magic.

 

[ssampier]

Erm, yes, I think so. If the craft exists, it's nonmagical. If it's nonmagical, then it conforms to the rules of the universe, and can be understood and replicated. Maybe not by us now, but someday. Unknown and magic are not the same. And while that is my opinion, I also believe it's one that alot of people agree with -- even if only in the skeptical, pessimistic part of their brain that they're desperately trying to ignore as they eagerly anticipate the Rapture.

Or maybe I don't understand your point.

I think alot of people will happily state that it seems like magic, but that doesn't mean it is magic, or that they believe it's magic.

No, you got it. We just disagree what magic is exactly. Of course the craft is governed by physics, but maybe not the physics we currently accept. Until we define those possible exceptions, it's magic to the average person.

Even something common-place like a simple wireless network is magic to your average consumer. They don't know how or why it works, as long as it does it's all that matters.

As for possible/impossible, isn't that relative? One hundred fifty years ago there was no computers, no flying machines, no cars (well not the kind we know). Are these things possible? Of course they are. But to the people living in those generations, they weren't possible; probably not even dreamed of.

 

[Cattrain]

all of those things

ok, i will extend this a little... extra terestreals are the government testing new transportation, remember the B-2 bomber? how ppl got a pic of it above the white house? thought it was an aleian?

ok, next, yetti, sasquach, bigfoot... large monkey...

last lach ness monster, you know that water dino? as the Bible, and many other great historical records say, there was once a great flood, before that was the dinosaurs. The dinos wer all killed off in the flood because the dinos wer too big to fit on the ark. the only ones that would survive would be the water dinos.

I have figured out alot more about this world from the Bible than most scientsts will ever know...

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The Bible does not mention dinosaurs.

 

[Agamon]

Well, if they looked like ants, I know that I, for one, would welcome our new insect overlords.

 

[LightPhoenix]

A lot of people have read Lord of the Rings, but that doesn't mean they believe in elves.

Elves exist man! I'm telling you! That Orlando Bloom? Total elf faerie!

Perhaps not in the United States. But the United States doesn't contain anywhere near a majority of the world population- in fact, IIRC it isn't even in the top 5 nations by population

Top five nations by population, circa 2005:

China, India, US, Indonesia, Brazil.

 

[Nellisir]

Even something common-place like a simple wireless network is magic to your average consumer. They don't know how or why it works, as long as it does it's all that matters.

Ah, this is where I balk. There's a difference, IMO, between seems like magic and actual magic. Maybe I'm overestimating my fellow American, but I think if you did a man on the street poll, fewer than 50% would attribute wireless cell phones to magic.

As for possible/impossible, isn't that relative? One hundred fifty years ago there was no computers, no flying machines, no cars (well not the kind we know). Are these things possible? Of course they are. But to the people living in those generations, they weren't possible; probably not even dreamed of.

Which doesn't make them the product of magic. Magical, in the sense of wondrous and fantastic? Absolutely. Magic? No. Possible/impossible, in this sense, aren't relative. The value of pi remains constant, whether or not your culture is aware of it. Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. Matter cannot exceed the speed of light (though there is weird quark stuff going on; this rule still holds true on stuff like rabbits and doves from a hat).

The OP's question was a choice between scientific and magical; nothing requires science to be transparent and simple. So to argue magic is just science we don't understand is circular (science becomes magic we do understand), and effectively negates the difference between the two.