This looks really familiar. Is it by chance from a certain 1st edition module that had a 32pp book of new monsters and magic items in addition to the adventure, or is it just remarkably similar? Either way, I love stuff like this. If this is something you made up yourself, good job.
First encounter area idea
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
Quasqueton
First Post
This is the original text from The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, an adventure for character levels 6-10, by Gary Gygax:
Boxed text:
*****
I've considered putting this room in a homebrew dungeon, but I wasn't sure how it would turn out in play. The Players in my game seem to always taken an inordinate amount of time with such "trick" situations. Or they completely ignore them and just move on.
And then there are a couple things that just confuse me about this dungeon creation style:
The first gem taken, regardless of which one it is, is worth 1,000 gp. One, I dislike this kind of gimmick -- like, "the second coffin the PCs open will have a wight" and such. Two, how would the PCs know what any of the gems were worth (no Appraisal skill in AD&D1)?
Getting the gem and/or the information from the faces requires the Players play guessing games without ever knowing whether playing the guessing game will actually do them any good. They have to say just the right word or phrase to the faces. And for one of the guessing games, they then have to play another guessing game to figure out the real answer.
I've come to dislike scenarios where the Players can waste an hour or more of game time just "screwing around" with essentially useless stuff. Getting 1,500 gp worth of gems and a hint as to the direction of the rest of the dungeon complex just isn't worth the effort, I think.
So I'm hesitant to use this scene in my game.
Quasqueton
Boxed text:
Each of these bas-relief carvings has an animated mouth with a permanent magic mouth spell cast upon it. When any party member comes within three feet of one of these faces, the mouth will move and it will say with a bass, mournfully dire tone: "TURN BACK ... THIS IS NOT THE WAY!" This will be repeated endlessly each time the same or another individual comes within three feet. If any member watches the stone mouth, he or she will note that it has something glittering within it. Each mouth has a gem in it. The colors are, from left to right, amber, purple (amethyst), pale blue (aquamarine), deep red (garnet), olive green (peridot), and dark pink (tourmaline). Regardless of which is taken first, the first gem is worth 1,000 gp. The others, although just as large, are flawed and worth but 100 gp each. The stone of these faces is very hard and nearly impossible to break. Each mouth will bite for 1d10+2 points of damage if anyone attempts to take the gem within. A command spell or a demand for the gem will not avail. However, if any character simply asks the face to stick out its tongue, or any similar request, the face will obey. The mouth will open, the sound "AAAHHH" will be heard, and the gem will be on the tongue. If characters attempt to speak with a visage, it will only repeat its deep-voiced warning. However, if the word "truth" is used in any question or demand, then each face will lie and state majestically: "MY WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY." Only the visage in the far southeast, beside the 2' wide passageway south, will say anything different. That mouth will speak as follows: "I WATCH THE ONLY WAY!"
*****
I've considered putting this room in a homebrew dungeon, but I wasn't sure how it would turn out in play. The Players in my game seem to always taken an inordinate amount of time with such "trick" situations. Or they completely ignore them and just move on.
And then there are a couple things that just confuse me about this dungeon creation style:
The first gem taken, regardless of which one it is, is worth 1,000 gp. One, I dislike this kind of gimmick -- like, "the second coffin the PCs open will have a wight" and such. Two, how would the PCs know what any of the gems were worth (no Appraisal skill in AD&D1)?
Getting the gem and/or the information from the faces requires the Players play guessing games without ever knowing whether playing the guessing game will actually do them any good. They have to say just the right word or phrase to the faces. And for one of the guessing games, they then have to play another guessing game to figure out the real answer.
I've come to dislike scenarios where the Players can waste an hour or more of game time just "screwing around" with essentially useless stuff. Getting 1,500 gp worth of gems and a hint as to the direction of the rest of the dungeon complex just isn't worth the effort, I think.
So I'm hesitant to use this scene in my game.
Quasqueton
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
I've had fun with this entry to S4 with numerous parties.
For the DM, you might want them to "quit screwing around and get on with the dungeon, already", but investigating this sort of odd room and puzzling out how it works is part of what makes D&D, D&D -- IMO, of course. Players can have a lot of fun with this sort of thing, though it does depend on your group, after all. If they don't like odd situations or puzzles, they probably won't like this.
For the DM, you might want them to "quit screwing around and get on with the dungeon, already", but investigating this sort of odd room and puzzling out how it works is part of what makes D&D, D&D -- IMO, of course. Players can have a lot of fun with this sort of thing, though it does depend on your group, after all. If they don't like odd situations or puzzles, they probably won't like this.
FireLance
Legend
Just a few comments.
I believe that this and similar DM tricks that give the PCs the illusion of choice (e.g. whether the players go left or right, the DM runs encounter #2) should be used sparingly. Used properly, it is a tool for the DM to control the pace and flow of the adventure. However, if mishandled, it can create distrust between the DM and players, e.g. if the PCs were smart enough to use detect undead, got no positive results, and the second coffin contained a wight anyway. Even if the DM thought of an "out" at the last minute - the wight had non-detection cast on it, or the coffin was lined with lead - it could look to the players like the DM is simply coming up with ways to counter their good ideas.Quasqueton said:
I think the information is more for the DM's use when the PCs try to sell the gems.
My problems with the scenario are firstly, that it doesn't go far enough to outline possible responses to player creativity. If command is available to the PCs, surely unseen servant would be, too, but it doesn't provide guidelines for what will happen if the players try and use it to take the gems out of the mouths. The bigger problem I have with it is that with the exception of certain rather contrived scenarios, I don't understand why anyone would go to all the trouble of creating several stone faces with magic mouth spells containing gems that are given to anyone who asks the faces to stick out their tongues.
The first thing is just purely arbitrary Gygaxian metagaming -- he wants to reward clever players without encouraging excessive greed. If this offends your sensibilities it's easy enough to either assign in advance which mouth has the 1000 g.p. gem, or to make all the gems worth 250 g.p. apiece (so the total value remains the same).Quasqueton said:
The second point is a matter of "old-school" playstyle: 1) testing the players' knowledge (tell them the gem types and leave it up to them to remember which types of gems are worth what) and 2) assumed knowledge -- if there's a gnome, or a dwarf, or a thief, or someone with an appropriate secondary skill (jeweler/lapidary, trader/barterer, miner, gambler) in the party the DM will probably just tell the players how much the gems or worth with no roll or skill-check required. Yes it's inexact and the experience will vary widely from player-group to player-group depending on the DM. That's just the way the game worked then, love it or hate it.
The question here is "will my players find this fun, boring, frustrating, annoying, etc.?" Some players (myself included) like little puzzles like this, and consider solving them pretty much their own reward -- I'd much rather spend 20 minutes trying to figure out the tricks in this room than fighting a boring combat or chit-chatting with a boring NPC. That said, I also like to keep the game moving, and if I can't figure out the puzzle after a reasonable effort (probably about 20 minutes of trying, like I said above) I won't let the game grind to a halt over it, I'll move on (if I can). I find stuff like this fun. I don't care if it's realistic in-milieu, or what the rationale is, I just like tricks and puzzles and anything that gives me the opportunity to deal with them I like. If your players share this attitude then you should include rooms like this. If they don't -- if they find stuff like this boring, or frustrating, or it interferes with their suspension of disbelief and spoils their fun -- then you probably shouldn't.
I don't see much difference in "exploring" a room like this & exploring a dungeon. Sure, it's more abstract, but--after all--players sitting around a table exploring a dungeon via talking is abstract too. This is much more interesting, IMHO, than most combats.
It would be nice if, besides the treasure, there was more interesting information to be garnered than which tunnel leads to the dungeon proper. Like, perhaps, which of the tunnels would lead to a McGuffin. Or a hint that a dead-end tunnel contains a secret door.
Replacing the gems with keys could be interesting too.
Perhaps a room such as this could be intended as a sort of guidepost to people with whom the whimsical creator shared a cryptic hint that would help in "reading" it.
Perhaps it is simply intended to scare off commoners, common bandits, your average orc, &c.
It would be nice if, besides the treasure, there was more interesting information to be garnered than which tunnel leads to the dungeon proper. Like, perhaps, which of the tunnels would lead to a McGuffin. Or a hint that a dead-end tunnel contains a secret door.
Replacing the gems with keys could be interesting too.
Perhaps a room such as this could be intended as a sort of guidepost to people with whom the whimsical creator shared a cryptic hint that would help in "reading" it.
Perhaps it is simply intended to scare off commoners, common bandits, your average orc, &c.
