D&D 4E First Impressions of 4E / Predictions on 5E

Do you know why so many people play WoW?

Because it's fun.

Does that particular business model offend you so greatly that you cannot overlook the cartoonish overtures of WoW to see that, at its root, it is essentially the same as D&D?

Defenders, Strikers, Controllers and Leaders have always been present within D&D, they've just never been explicitly bared like this. What you have is a group of designers who are now cogently aware that the typical gamer can deal with bare naked mechanics and won't go crying about something shattering their fourth wall if you're blunt about what role a class is expected to fill and why.

Most older players, frankly, seem to stick with whatever edition they came in on/are so comfortable with they can't give it up and just buy supplements as fluff or, worse yet, not at all.

So sorry if you're not the target audience of a corporation, know what I mean?

Anyone can sit down and throw some mechanics together and create a game. I know this for a fact. But you choose to purchase and employ someone else's work instead of doing it all yourself. You choose to complain about it because it's not exactly what you'd like. Here's the rub: nobody forced you to buy that product. Nobody is forcing you to use it. Nobody wants to hear about how you're being alienated by the company "you helped build." Except you.

I speak with Rodney Thompson often enough to know that he's a level-headed guy. If he's any indication of what a "typical" WotC staffer is like, the only reason you should worry about him being in control of a game is if it's Halo and you're a noob. Wizards is not dumb; they are trying to grow their audience by appealing to a younger generation. Nobody is denying that or trying to conceal it. Anyone who knows the first thing about marketing knows that the fattest purchasing demographic in America is...16-24 year olds. I don't fit into that demographic any more. I do fit into another strong demographic (18-46 year old males) but that's NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE. Want to know why? You're already here.

If you look to a corporation to keep your best interests in mind, you should hope that you're in their primary target demographic. If you're not, you will almost certainly be disappointed.
 

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There will be a few WoW elements in 4e, such as better class balance and stickier tanks. I don't see that as a bad thing. And in some respects, such as the reduction in the 'Xmas tree effect' (ie fewer magic item slots), 4e will be less like WoW than 3e.

I strongly doubt it's a scheme to attract WoW players. Much more likely is it's being used as a source of inspiration. Which makes a lot of sense given: a) It's very similar to D&D and b) It's amazingly popular.

A WoW player would be much more likely to look at a new MMORPG that promises to fix the flaws in WoW (such as its repetitive nature) than D&D. In the same way that by far and away the major audience for 4e will be 3e players.

That's what 4e will be imo. 3e with some (not all) of the problems fixed. Well worth a look if you're a fan of 3e.
 

I enjoy WoW, but I would hate it if 4E took its cue from WoW magic items (or EQ1 magic items, which are even more extreme).

A magic helmet, magic necklace, magic cloak, two magic rings, magic armor, magic shoulder armor, magic bracers, magic pants, magic belt, magic boots, magic gloves, magic weapon in each hand, a magic ranged weapon slung across the back and two magic "trinkets" -- to say nothing of magic items just stored in Ye Olde Tyme Magic Backpacks -- would make me scream.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I enjoy WoW, but I would hate it if 4E took its cue from WoW magic items (or EQ1 magic items, which are even more extreme).

A magic helmet, magic necklace, magic cloak, two magic rings, magic armor, magic shoulder armor, magic bracers, magic pants, magic belt, magic boots, magic gloves, magic weapon in each hand, a magic ranged weapon slung across the back and two magic "trinkets" -- to say nothing of magic items just stored in Ye Olde Tyme Magic Backpacks -- would make me scream.

So, would you say the Hand of Vecna's item card should have a purple border, or orange?
 


They can take all of the WOW mechanics they want as long as they are useful to the game.

Imo, there's one reason I play dnd. I play the character I want, doing the things I want.

No matter how good the computer game is, its still scripted. I will do the same missions eventually, and there's only so much freedom you have available.

Dnd is limited by imagination, which is of course as limitless as you want it to be. That doesn't mean that rules like aggro, martial powers, class roles, etc aren't good to bring in, as long as they help me enjoy the game my imagination has created.
 

Please please please don't begin any 5e comments for at least five years, then we can start speculating on that.

As for any WoWification, if they take something from a good computer game and use it and make their rpg game better than it was than I am all for it.
 

Pozeltum said:
Then again I didn't like Monks as a core class in 3E, once again I think the core should be the "classics", if you can call them that.


The monk is a "classic", he's been around since 1st Ed – I want my Grand Master of Flowers, baby!

As for the original topic, screw it; I'm waiting for 7th Ed, which apparently is already available in Japan.
 

Acid_crash said:
Please please please don't begin any 5e comments for at least five years, then we can start speculating on that.

As for any WoWification, if they take something from a good computer game and use it and make their rpg game better than it was than I am all for it.

When I want to play a computer game I will play a computer game and not a PnP.
 

Derren said:
When I want to play a computer game I will play a computer game and not a PnP.

That's a bogus argument because 4e isn't a computer game.

Personally I haven't seen anything that's blatantly stolen from WoW. D&D and RPGs in general have a very rich and varied history with more than enough material seeing a return in 4e rather than being something new. If anything WoW stole from D&D in a mostly indirect manner. Blizzard doesn't make new ideas themselves, they just refine older ones already lying around.

That said, even if 4e did steal from WoW, what's the problem? If it does make the game better who cares who came up with it first?
 

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