D&D 5E (2014) First Level Hit Points Need to Increase

[keterys]

Fiction is full of things that aren't dead that are still meaningful.

Real life, too, but that's less fun.

 

[Sunseeker]

sorry but if you take death out of the equation.then what other factor would express danger?

Physical loss that isn't death. Granted D&D doesn't have a wound system but some people play with some mods and I'm sure DDN will roll one out eventually that do add this. This could also be extended towards losing items, not necessarily your magic armor, but say, the sacred relic you were transporting. Then there's the loss of life of others, your character's friends or family. And just plain old failing to meet whatever goals were put before you.

Aside from that, what I'm saying, which I don't think you're getting, is that the chance of death doesn't need to be high in order for the fear of death to be real. Being able to bring a character close to death is often more frightening than actually killing the character. Killing the characters all over makes death boring and trivial.

 

[pemerton]

sorry but if you take death out of the equation.then what other factor would express danger?

But if I can just roll up a new PC and bring him/her into the game, how is there any real danger? What's the real loss in PC death, in that case?

To answer my own (mostly rhetorical) questions: what makes PC death a loss, even in a game where a new PC can be brought in, is some sort of emotional relationship between the player, the PC and (probably) pride in playing the game well. By getting killed you lost the game.

I think part of the point of the posters who replied to you is that, for some players in some games, the same sorts of emotional investment in the game can arise in respect of things other than the continuing life of the PC.

 

[FireLance]

sorry but if you take death out of the equation.then what other factor would express danger?

The apparent risk of death.

What percentage of rollercoaster rides need to result in death for rollercoaster rides to seem risky and thrilling?

Similarly, what percentage of encounters need to result in PC death for fights to seem risky and thrilling?

 

[jadrax]

One of the bizarre features of D&D is that death from the Player POV is mechanically a very minor inconvenience, unless the campaign starts you of at first level after death. And even in that case, the way the XP tables work is actually designed with the intent of getting the lower level party members back up to speed quickly.

You want to scare a player, rip their character's arms off.

 

[Son of Meepo]

You want to scare a player, rip their character's arms off.

At higher level when I've invested a lot into a character and there are ways to heal that, then sure. But if I'm only in the lower levels of the game, that character is retiring from adventuring and I'm rolling up a new one, which is pretty much exactly the same as death from a player POV.

 

[keterys]

At higher level when I've invested a lot into a character and there are ways to heal that, then sure. But if I'm only in the lower levels of the game, that character is retiring from adventuring and I'm rolling up a new one, which is pretty much exactly the same as death from a player POV.

I actually dis-armed the PC of a mutual friend of ours 1/3 into a campaign. Using a spell he himself had designed.

Granted, in this case it was tremendously convenient since there was a magical mechanical arm to acquire two adventures later. (Dragonlance Classics arc)

A minute later, after the party finished the combat and took stock of the fact that he had no arm nor way to reattached it, he goes "So... can I strap my shield in place to still get a bonus from it, and switch my weapon over to the other arm?"

Ahh, D&D-ers.

 

[Blackbrrd]

In 3e I got a level 18 Cleric/Knight of the Crown/Sword/Rose. Dying wasn't something I was really worried about. Getting thrown out of the knighthood - now THAT would have been scary. We actually had a session where I had to defend my right to be a knight in front of the knight council. I was at the edge of my seat the whole session.

 

[airwalkrr]

First level HP are just too low right now. I recommend that they be increased to Constitution score + hit die. Right now, it's just too easy for a first level character to be one-shot. I realize that 1st level characters aren't exactly epic heroes, but this is ridiculous. For example, 1st level combat spells do more than enough damage to outright kill a 1st level character with ease. Magic Missile does 3d4+6 (avg. 13.5) damage and always hits. Inflict wounds deals 4d8 (avg. 18) damage. Burning Hands and Thunderwave deal 3d8 (avg. 13.5) damage to an area.

A first level fighter has at most 10-15 hit points. Any of these spells could kill him in a single hit. It's even worse for other classes with smaller hit dice. Even with the change I am suggesting, these spells would still be quite deadly, but not ridiculously so. And it's not just spells. Weapon attacks can easily do damage in the teens. While first level characters should be relatively fragile, I don't think it's too much to ask that they be able to survive one non-critical hit, maybe two, before dropping!

[Edit] Some of you might be thinking, why not just reduce spell damage? No, the damage of 1st level spells is fine right now. If their damage was reduced, they'd be weaker than basic at-will weapon attacks, and that would be ridiculous. They'd also be weaker than cantrips at higher levels. I've suggested that they change cantrip scaling to match cleric and rogue deadly strike (2[W] at 9th level and 3[W] at 19th). If they followed this progression, cantrips would still be a bit weaker than 1st level spells even at 19th level. If you nerf the 1st level spells, cantrips end up getting better, and that's a bit absurd. Even if you did nerf the 1st level spells, it does nothing about regular weapon damage, which can still easily do damage in the teens. The most simple and elegant solution is to give characters more hit points.

The thread is TL;DR. But perhaps the problem is not the hit points, but the spells.

 

[haakon1]

I like first level hitpoints low.

Me too.