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Five-Minute Workday Article

So long as there are things which become unavailable, some players will want to wait until those things become available before continuing. So long as that occurs, it will be possible to end up with 15MAD-like situation where the players are ultra careful about being at full power all the time instead of pushing on with the story.
Yes, but that presupposes a binary condition between "full" and "not-full". Relative power exists on a continuum. Even in 3e, the edition most amenable to 15MWD, PCs don't rest for the day when the wizard is down 2 HP. They regroup because any attack you really want to win is one where it makes sense to spend as much of your resources upfront as possible.

The way I've seen 15WMD play out is this:

"OK, who are we fighting today?"
"Those hobgoblins who summoned the gelugons are still holding the village down the river hostage."
"Let's fix that. Check if they're still there."
*Scry*
"Yep, still there."
"Ok, let's get ready."
*Mass Energy Resistance (cold)*
*Superior Resistance*
*Invisibility* on everyone
*Mirror Image*
*Fly* on everyone
*Haste*
*Righteous Wrath of the Faithful*
*Teleport*
Scout while flying and invisible, locate enemies.
*Dispel Magic* on the area around the enemy cluster.
Drop in for the attack.
Crush everyone, focusing on enemy spellcasters. If something bad happens, regroup, *teleport* to base.

Let me mention that this isn't a hypothetical. This is how my last 3.5 game played out from January (when we hit 11th, and the other wizard and I got teleport (we were multiclassed)) until the game ended a week ago.
 

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Let's look at it a moment from 20,000 feet, at the larger issue for which the 15 minute work day is merely one famous example. I'm going the long way around for things that I think most people already know to show the linkage:

Namely, it is anywhere the game model breaks down, such that the effort required by the players is totally out of sync with the effort required by the characters. For example, Joe the Fighter goes on an adventure, kills some goblins, gains a level, and decides to put some skill points, feats, or the like into being a jeweler. This is almost trivial for the player, but is supposed to represent, in game, hundreds of hours of practice at working with gems and jewelry.

Now, you actually get the same effect no matter what Joe uses that XP for, but it's a lot more palatable that he gets a feat to hit a little harder with his longsword, as the training and practice are unspoken but assumed. That's why a lot of groups will tell Joe he can't buy that new or increased jeweler ability until Joe has spent some time in game on it. But even here, we aren't going to play it out in mindless tedium. Thus, in-game character time is a resource here, not, say, Joe's dedication and will to bend over small pieces of jewelry for hours at a time, day after day. Or more clearly, Joe spends "age" to gain "PS: Jeweler." Thus, if Joe is an elf that lives for a 1,000 years, and the campaign makes no particular effort to make time matter, then Joe spending "age" doesn't really cost anything.

And because these things are all "break in the model" types, they share with 15 MAD that they can't all be fully addressed by mechanics, but can be muted by mechanics and then the rest covered by advice. The game model will always have holes in it somewhere, as a game about killing monsters and taking their treasure will never be a great model for, say, medieval fantasy professions. In the case of 15 MAD, the game assumes a certain amount of desire and push to "go adventure" that you don't want to completely circumscribe with a bunch of mechanics driving the PCs to do that very thing. Encouragement and prods are good, fences and no real decisions, not so much.

So in general, I'd say that when the model starts to break down in ways like the 15 MAD, we want to examine the efforts and resources put forth by the PC in the game model, which are done in lieu of the more realistic efforts and resources that the characters might expend if their story was real. Thus the varied insights by many that part of the problem with Vancian magic is not that it is daily, but that it is daily that is easy to use, easy to get back. And that's also why the "solutions" are so varied yet not necessarily well received when shared across campaigns. The only solutions that work are the ones that impose real costs on the PCs in the model, whether that be by house rules, contriving events in the game world, etc. These necessarily change from campaign to campaign, and player to player, just as age is a real factor for Joe the human fighter in a tight, gritty campaign, not for Joe the elf fighter in a loose, epic campaign.
 


Does it really matter? They rested right afterwards. It's the modern warfare approach to D&D, I guess. Locate target, call in air support, have a cigar.

Only reason not to if the system either gives a reason not to do it, or the DM or PCs give themselves reasons not to do it. Thankfully, I mostly can count on players to want to push onwards so I don't run into it that often. Yay for social contracts.

Course, I also have problems the other way - I almost have to beat them upside the head with a rest opportunity or they'll keep on going. ;)
 

9 spells on one encounter? Wow! Sourced from how many casters?

3 casters. A warlock/wizard/Eldritch Theurge, a beguiler/focused evoker/Ultimate Magus(me), and a cleric.

I provided the invisibilities and some of the flys, the haste, and the mirror image. Cleric handled superior resistance, RWotF, and Mass Energy Resistance. I also usually cast the teleport, since I had a Runestaff of Transportation. The other wizard handled the scry, if needed, or just judicious use of Dragoneye Rune, as well as a personal Mirror Image.

Big guys I usually handled with a combination of Empowered / Quickened Scorching Rays, with a combination of Arcane Thesis (not cheesed, the DM and I agreed on the strictest interpretation possible, -1 total adjustment to spell level after all MM feats are applied), Residual Magic, and the Ultimate Magus metamagic ability. That was how we killed the CR 20 mountain giant at level 11. Good times. :)
 

3 casters. A warlock/wizard/Eldritch Theurge, a beguiler/focused evoker/Ultimate Magus(me), and a cleric.

Interesting...how many others in the party? I ask, because while I'm in a big group, we typically only have 2 full casters in a given D&D party. And as such the typical spell outlay in a givn encounter is 2-3 spells from the arcanist (typically a Wizard) and 1-2 divine spells from the main cleric.

We did have one group in which many PCs had a couple of divine caster levels, so in that group there would be one encounter after which there would be a flurry of low-level healing going on...

Until the guy playing the Favored Soul moved away, then the new guy playing the Druid moved away, leaving us with only one full (Arcane) caster. That's when i retired my Ftr/Rgr/SpecWiz Div/SpSwd to take up the mantle of "medic."

(Not that I played a straight cleric or anything, but my Sorc/Clc/MT/Geomancer does the job quite well.)
 

9 spells on one encounter? Wow! Sourced from how many casters?

Well, it is a 9th level party. One caster could have done that by himself. But, I see that three casters did it.

DannyA, I wonder if your experiences aren't coloring your perceptions. You don't play in caster heavy groups. I think, OTOH, that there are a number of groups that are much more caster heavy, and they would see 15 MAD much more.

I know that when I ran the World's Largest Dungeon, we weren't a caster heavy group, so, 15 MAD largely wasn't an issue. And, when I ran Savage Tide Adventure Path, we still weren't terribly caster heavy, and between healing wands and Reserve Feats, 15 MAD again totally wasn't an issue. The party was going through 4-6 encounters before resting.

I imagine that the primary cause here, more than adventure design or anything else, is party make up. Makes sense. If you have a group of 5 PC's, 3 of which are Vancian casters, 15 MAD is going to crop up a lot more than in a group where you only have 1 or 2 casters.
 

The best part is, it actually feeds itself.

If the party knows they can get away with 15MWD, they're going to be a lot more inclined to be a caster. And soon enough you have a party of all casters. Cause why not.
 

DannyA, I wonder if your experiences aren't coloring your perceptions. You don't play in caster heavy groups. I think, OTOH, that there are a number of groups that are much more caster heavy, and they would see 15 MAD much more.

Wouldn't that cut the other way? Many have asserted that the 15MWD occurs when the casters go nova and/or otherwise run out of spells to sling.

With fewer high level spells at our disposal, we'd run out of them more quickly than a caster-heavy group- but for our oft-described spell-stingy playstyle, of course- meaning we would have more incentive to rest.

And, when I ran Savage Tide Adventure Path, we still weren't terribly caster heavy, and between healing wands and Reserve Feats, 15 MAD again totally wasn't an issue.

We don't use lots of CLW wands- no crafter casters in our groups. We have whatever healing our casters have in spell or feat form, plus whatever we find, plus a couple of potions per PC, purchased when in town, if available. (They aren't always on the shelves.)

As for feats, typical campaign rules are Core 3 no Psi or Core 3 + Completes, no Psi, each PC can only use PHB + 2 other books. So far, only one PC has used Reserve feats.
 
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The best part is, it actually feeds itself.

If the party knows they can get away with 15MWD, they're going to be a lot more inclined to be a caster. And soon enough you have a party of all casters. Cause why not.
In my first long-running Rolemaster game, the positive feedback worked this way: the caster PCs has control over the teleports and other, similar "pacing control" magics, leaving the non-caster PCs with little choice but to go along with the casters. At which point the players of non-casters start introducing caster PCs instead, (i) to take advantage of the nova-rest cycle, and (ii) to get access to their own teleports!

At which point the balance in the game stabilised around a 15minute day paradigm. Which was fine - the game was not unbalanced - but relied upon a somewhat narrow party composition.
 

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