Five Nations (especially Knight Phantom)

[stonegod]

No worries

Hmmm....What if we made it equal to the [arcane caster level] OR [effective cleric level for purposes of turning undead + class level in the PrC].

I think that leaves the paladin 4/sorc 6/pyro 1 route unhappy: That would be 6 dice (10 if praticed spellcaster was taken) vs
cleric 1/wiz 5/pyro 5 (which would have 9 dice or 13 with practiced). If we did [cleric level + arcane caster] or [paladin level -3 + arcane caster] I think we'd be fine---the only power creep would be practiced spell caster.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think that leaves the paladin 4/sorc 6/pyro 1 route unhappy: That would be 6 dice (10 if praticed spellcaster was taken) vs
cleric 1/wiz 5/pyro 5 (which would have 9 dice or 13 with practiced). If we did [cleric level + arcane caster] or [paladin level -3 + arcane caster] I think we'd be fine---the only power creep would be practiced spell caster.

Admittedly the Pally route only has 6 dice with my variant, but it normally only has 7 at that level, so did it really lose much?

 

[stonegod]

Though, I should state, I think its probably fine as written (its not as broken as the orb spells ) While practiced spell caster would have some general benefit, the philactery for the pyro is only useful in this more limited case. It also costs 11k gp, which would be pretty much all the gold for a 7th level char. If the no item greater than half avg level gold is in effect, they should have one of those until 9th.

 

[stonegod]

Admittedly the Pally route only has 6 dice with my variant, but it normally only has 7 at that level, so did it really lose much?

Still think it would be 6 (paladin turns as a cleric their level minus 3). But is late and my math gets broken then. Probably should go to sleep.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It is definitely not as broken as the Orb spells--I agree with that. It just seems to be an excessive amount of nuking against undead. It is very situational in that it only effects undead, and it for sure won't break any game except one that heavily emphasises undead--it is better than turning also, except against very weak undead. I definitely don't think it is 'out-of-whack' in such a way that the game will implode (I do think this of Wraithstrike--if you allow this spell and a player uses it on a Fighter/Mage character, your game will implode!), but on the other hand, it is a bit too strong. Disallowing the phylactery would be one way to help it.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Still think it would be 6 (paladin turns as a cleric their level minus 3). But is late and my math gets broken then. Probably should go to sleep.

Yes, it would be 6 with my variant (just use the 6 Sorc levels), but 7 with the normal class (6 + 1 for Pal4). As written, the ability is not that strong for the Pal4/Sor6. Then again, Pal4/Sor6 is an incredibly weak build for this PrC--if it was the only build for the Prc, I'd be willing to give the PrC many more abilities

 

[stonegod]

One other note that should be made: One of the cleric spells in the Thrane section gives a similar ability. Its a 3rd level swift spell (cleric and paladins). Causes next turn attempt to affect undead in 60' w/ 1d6 damage per caster level (not cleric turning level), will save half. It is not affected by turn resistance (unlike the pyro ability), and the text limits it to followers of the silver flame only.

 

[Rystil Arden]

One other note that should be made: One of the cleric spells in the Thrane section gives a similar ability. Its a 3rd level swift spell (cleric and paladins). Causes next turn attempt to affect undead in 60' w/ 1d6 damage per caster level (not cleric turning level), will save half. It is not affected by turn resistance (unlike the pyro ability), and the text limits it to followers of the silver flame only.

Hmmm...that's a wider radius too, and it can be Karma Bead exploited (but so can everything). It's reasonably capped, though, right?--say at 10d6? We don't want a 3rd-level spell that makes Flamestrike obsolete.

 

[stonegod]

Hmmm...that's a wider radius too, and it can be Karma Bead exploited (but so can everything). It's reasonably capped, though, right?--say at 10d6? We don't want a 3rd-level spell that makes Flamestrike obsolete.

No cap (and its a Fort save, not Will, as I previously reported). Flamestrike still targets everything, unlike this, of course. I do not think a cap would be unreasonable (esp as when the cap becomes important, others bigger spells come on line), though, unlike flamestrike, it costs a spell and a turning.

 

[Rystil Arden]

No cap (and its a Fort save, not Will, as I previously reported). Flamestrike still targets everything, unlike this, of course. I do not think a cap would be unreasonable (esp as when the cap becomes important, others bigger spells come on line), though, unlike flamestrike, it costs a spell and a turning.

Fort is completely unreasonable--you may as well not give them a save! It needs to be Will, like you first thought. But yeah, considering Searing Light, which is also a 3rd-level spell (1 target, 10d6 cap against undead), this new Eberron spell is totally out of line.