Five Suggestions to Limit Wizard Power

[Mishihari Lord]

The discussions about knock are leaving aside a more important spot where a wizard overshadows a thief: the fly spell. The thief's coolest ability by far is their ability to climb places no one else can get to. But this ability comes into play only a few times per adventure at most, usually just once. Fly is so useful that the casters almost always have at least one, and that's what gets used instead of the thief's ability. IME once a party hits mid-level, climb never, ever gets used.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

The discussions about knock are leaving aside a more important spot where a wizard overshadows a thief: the fly spell. The thief's coolest ability by far is their ability to climb places no one else can get to. But this ability comes into play only a few times per adventure at most, usually just once. Fly is so useful that the casters almost always have at least one, and that's what gets used instead of the thief's ability. IME once a party hits mid-level, climb never, ever gets used.

What's stopping the rogue from drinking a fly potion or casting a scroll of Fly if the ability is needed that bad?

Climb comes in handy all the time in our Pathfinder games. Not everyone can fly and not every Wizard has one memorized and I wouldn't advise flying ahead of the party all alone.

 

[Incenjucar]

What's stopping the rogue from drinking a fly potion or casting a scroll of Fly if the ability is needed that bad?

Climb comes in handy all the time in our Pathfinder games. Not everyone can fly and not every Wizard has one memorized and I wouldn't advise flying ahead of the party all alone.

Where is a rogue in a party without a wizard going to find one of those?

 

[Janaxstrus]

Where is a rogue in a party without a wizard going to find one of those?

I thought they sold magic on every corner? Isn't that one of the complaints listed here? A wizard can just locate any spell he wants at any time? Why can't a rogue find a potion of fly?

 

[Incenjucar]

I thought they sold magic on every corner? Isn't that one of the complaints listed here? A wizard can just locate any spell he wants at any time? Why can't a rogue find a potion of fly?

A wizard doesn't have to purchase a Fly spell to be able to cast it. That's just one of their options.

 

[eamon]

I thought they sold magic on every corner? Isn't that one of the complaints listed here? A wizard can just locate any spell he wants at any time? Why can't a rogue find a potion of fly?

It's a matter of opinion. I think D&D works best as a high-magic game: if magic items are that important and getting the right one is that important, there might well be a lively trade in them. However, if you're in a low-magic (well, a low-magic-item-shop) setting, you'll make it harder for non-casters to benefit from magic. In 3e, that certainly would penalize non-casters much heavily than casters.

I don't think it's necessary to have magic be exclusively in the hands of the casters.

 

[Baron Opal]

I've been thinking a lot about the Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard problem. We all know it was a major problem in 3rd, it was defeated in 4th by a radical overhaul to the way class mechanics work. With the return of Vancian Magic, there's a great fear that this will once again be a problem.

Here are my five suggestions to limit wizard power:

Interesting. Here is what I have done:

1. Reduce Spell Slots

I use the same table, but bonus spells from attributes has become a fixed number based on the attribute bonus. You have a +3? You get 3 levels worth of bonus spells. This is a boon to the first level wizard who now gets 4 first level spells. For the fifth, it is also useful but they only get a single bonus 3rd level spell.

It's still useful, but mostly at early levels and the benefit diminishes with time.

2. No Player Created Magic Items

This I don't use. Rather, about half of the magic items are player fashoned. My problems were never with scrolls, whose cost I changed to a flat 100 gp / level of spell. Wands were the major headache, and for the standard price I changed those to an inverse Fibonacchi sequence:

1st - 20 charges
2nd - 12 charges
3rd - 8 charges
4th - 5 charges

Do you want a utility wand of detect magic or magic missile? Not a problem. Stoneskin? Well, you can enhance the party, but only once.

3. Remove Unlimited Spell Access and Learning:

This is the crux of the matter for me. Change this and you have fixed half of the problem.

In my campaigns, a wizard gains one spell from their mentor or personal research each level. This difference has been dramatic. By granting only one spell per level the magician is tied to only two spells per spell level. Most people seem to want at least three. Also, you have no extras to acquire spells from previous levels to round out the repetoire. Characters are driven to acquire other spell books through adventure or trade (good things), or spend their money on spell research (not enchanting items).

That one change alone made a huge difference in my campaign.

4. Additional Cost for Class Stealing Spells

For me, the trick was to recognize the limitations inherent in the spells and where other classes could shine. There were some levels where the other classes may have played a secondary role, but they soon recouped their position. For example, the rogue is a master of misdirection and is able to bypass the guardian with detect invisible or true sight, whereas the magician is not.

Also, I must say that I've seldom had the wizard scout while invisible. Maybe the fighter was made invisible to accompany the rogue, or the rogue themselves to be practically undetectable. Seldom did the magician seek to outdo the rogue, however.

However, if the wizard has to choose between invisibility, knock, and web, they have a hard choice.

5. Make Combat Casting Difficult:

Absolutely. I simply went back to the wizard could not cast when next to a foe. For concentration issues, any spell that required concentration was lost if they suffered more than their Constitution modifier + highest castable spell level in damage.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Much in the same way that the fighter is only balanced against the wizard if there are lots of fights over the course of a single day, the rogue or thief is only balanced if there are many opportunities to use his skills - plenty of locks to be opened, doors to be listened at and so forth.

This worked for mega-dungeons but it doesn't work nearly so well for modern adventures, which have fewer encounters. The typical modern adventure will only have one opportunity to, say, climb a sheer surface. This is good adventure design because it's boring to face the same type of challenge over and over, but it leads to balance problems if the classes remain unchanged. D&D must evolve to fit its new environment.

 

[B.T.]

6. Low HP and AC.

 

[Elf Witch]

I play a lot of wizards in 3E and I have to say i don't see half the issues that people complain about on the internet.

Lets start with knock. If we have a dedicated rogue I don't bother to waste one of my two new spells on knock. Now if we find a scroll for knock I might add it to my spellbook so I can make a scroll of knock to carry around in case the rogue needs help.

It is a waste to memorize it and give up better spells.

Fly yes I the wizard with the low hit points and the lack of easily killing something without making a lot of noise is going to leave the safety of the party and go after the guard in the high tower. Get real wizards are not usually stealthy of course I could cast invisibility on me so now I have used up two spells to do what the rogue can do all day long. It would be better for me to cast the invisibility and fly on the rogue because he would be better the candidate to get the job done. We are supposed to be a team.

Maybe the problem is that so many people seem to play with jerks who are lone wolves and want all the glory for themselves.

Charm person yes I can cast charm but this makes the person my friend not my slave so I still need to use diplomacy on him or bluff to get him to do what i want. Wow a another spell and skill check of a non class skill.

There is a trap so I cast spider climb or gaseous form to get around it. Great so now I am on the other side of the trap without my party. And here comes the monsters as the DM cackles gleefully.

I can know every spell in creation well wait I can know 2 a level every, other spell I need to find or buy a scroll and transcribe it into my spell book. If I fail the spellcraft check I can't learn it until I level again and my spellcracft check goes up. I am totally dependent on the DM giving me the opportunity to find extra spells and the time off to transcribe them. Not to mention keeping track of how big my spell book is and having to spend gold on a new one and magical supplies to write these spells.

I will admit the five foot step is wonky but getting hit while casting means making a casting check of DC 10 plus the points of damage plus level of the spell. I have lost plenty of spells that way.

I can combat cast but if I fail that then I don't take damage I lose the spell slot.

If you want to make it more difficult raise the DC but to go back where taking 1 point of damage and you lose a spell is horrible idea.

Making magic items is really dependent on the DM giving you down time something I have rarely seen. In the Age of Worms campaign I play in I am 12 level and I have made one item a chronomancer stone for the rogue simply because I have not had the time.

If I ever have a DM who thinks he should pick my spells I would walk out of the game it is my character I should be the one choosing what spells I want to know. If the DM does not like a spell take it out of the game.

I wonder how people would feel if the DM got to choose what skills the rogue takes, what god the cleric serves and what weapons the fighter has. I bet it would make a lot of people angry.

People bring up all these examples but forget something important at the table things don't go as smoothly as the example. The wizard may not know those combo of spells. Most spells have saves so if the person makes his save will that kind of changes the situation.