Fix a CR 8 critter with 37hp

[Land Outcast]

Anyone found it a need to fix the Ogre Mage?
Anyone actually fixed it (yes, I feel it is broken... in the non-munchkiny sense)

Sleep as a spell-like ability... CR 8... only affects 4 HD of creatures...

CR 8... 37hp (regeneration and stoneskin don't help, two hits from the barbarian or three from the fighter and he's down).


Anyone thinks it acually doesn't need fixing?

 

[Stalker0]

1st of all, they can fly, so a barb or fighter may never be able to touch them. And they can become invisible at will. If you don't kill this thing in a round, it can become invisible, regen up, and start again. If your party is not prepared to handle an invisible creature, this creature is extremely nasty.

Edit: Also, they can cast darkness at will. That means the party has a miss chance against it, while the creature's spells can work fine. And since the creature has regen, in an attrition battle the less hits the ogre mage takes the better off it is, even if that means it misses more often against the party.

 

[szilard]

Played intelligently, an Ogre Mage can be rather scary. Forced into a stand-up fight, they go down pretty quickly. Think of them as sorcerers (who happen to be kinda big and strong), rather than ogres with spells.

That said, compared to other monsters of similar CR, they do seem a bit underwhelming.

-Stuart

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

Re-adjust their CR to something more appropriate, truthfully they're probably a very very strong CR 6 or on the weaker half of CR 7 creatures (Regen combined with pretty good spell resistance for their level makes them really annoying to kill). Then, advance it two fighter levels, which would give it 17 more hp, 3 more feats (2 fighter bonus and one normal), one of the feats can be a Weapon Focus, giving it a +10 attack bonus (3d6+7, 19-20/x2 as usual), and possibly Quicken Spell-like Ability (Invisibility) or Fly-by Attack.

Give it some ogre bodyguards and keep it invisible at all times. The first strike in combat could be against a spellcaster, preferably flanking with one of its ogre bodyguards for a nasty surprise. It would stay visible one round, letting opponents attack it and gather around it, then use its Cone of Cold on as many people as it could, then use its quickened invisibility before flying up to regenerate the damage taken on it. Next round it can quaff a potion, perhaps Bull's Strength, letting its regeneration work for another round before attacking again. If you chose to give him Fly-by attack, he can swipe at said barbarian with near-impunity.

That sounds more like a nasty CR 8-9 encounter (minus ogre bodyguards)

 

[Land Outcast]

Thanks for the input people.
Specially thanks Sollir, that's what I was searching for.

Ogre Mage Ftr 2; Large Giant ; CR 9; HD 5d8+20 plus 2d10+8; hp 61;
Init +5; Spd 40 ft., fly 40 ft. (good); Space/Reach 10 ft./10 ft.; AC 19 (+1 Dex, -1 size, +5 natural, +4 chain shirt), touch 9, flat-footed 18;
Base Atk +5; Grp +14; Atk Greatsword +11 melee (3d6+10/19-20) or longbow +5 ranged (2d6/x3);
SA Spell-like abilities; SQ Darkvision 90 ft., low-light vision, regeneration 5, spell resistance 20; AL Usually lawful evil; SV Fort +12, Ref +2, Will +4;
Str 24, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 22
Skills: Concentration +14 (+18 Casting Defensively), Listen +10, Spellcraft +10, Spot +10
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Casting, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, [Feat]
Spell-Like Abilities: At will-darkness, invisibility; 1/day- charm person (DC 17), cone of cold (DC 21), gaseous form, polymorph, sleep (DC 17). Caster level 9th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Flight(Su): An ogre mage can cease or resume flight as a free action. While using gaseous form it can fly at its normal speed and has perfect maneuverability.
Regeneration(Ex): Fire and acid deal normal damage to an ogre mage. An ogre mage that loses a limb or body part can reattach it by holding the severed member to the stump. Reattachment takes 1 minute. If the head or some other vital organ is severed, it must be reattached within 10 minutes or the creature dies. An ogre mage cannot regrow lost body parts.

Sorry about the formatting, I'll fix it eventually

 

[Notmousse]

+54 initiative?!?!

My rogue's only got +9 and he's already 4th level!

 

[Land Outcast]

 

[Quartz]

Aren't you forgetting the critter's magic items? Its treasure isn't just going to be a mound of gold coins - it's going to be stuff it can use.

And then there's its shapechanging and mental abilities. Who's to say that it hasn't used its shapechanging ability and judicious use of Charm to become an officer in the militia or a rich mercant with hired guards?

 

[Land Outcast]

The treasure is far too random to consider it an actual compensation. (In the case of the non-classed ogre mage).

And creatures in the MM are CRed according to the difficulty to bring them down in a stand up fight (or something really close to that) and not in a "use of intelligence" scenario, take as an example the Vampire template, or the various highly intelligent dragons, any of those might be of their listed CR in a stand-up fight, but in a scene where the creature has been working on, they'll be quite more of a challenge.

Now, I know that if I'm willing to turn an encounter with a run-of-the-mill Ogre Mage, I can make it a CR 8, but it'll include external factors (environment use, henchmen).

 

[Quartz]

The treasure is far too random to consider it an actual compensation. (In the case of the non-classed ogre mage).

I'm sorry, but I simply don't understand this statement. Any intelligent creature will have treasure it can use - and it will.