Flaming Sphere Reflex Save Question

[Hypersmurf]

It's also worth noting that, as written, the sphere only deals damage to someone when it enters their square and stops moving for the round.

If the sphere doesn't move in the next round, then as written, it doesn't deal damage to the person again, even if he remains in the same square.

-Hyp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

(I've always assumed that the sphere size is a typo, myself.)

Didn't it used to be 3ft diameter in previous editions?

 

[CapnZapp]

Reflex saves is an abstraction, they can be really hard to envision. It's best not to dwell on the subject.

By the rules, you get an Reflex save even when sleeping or when you're unconscious (although you might be considered to have an effective Dex modifier of -5 in some situations), so there are nothing indeed saying you move physically.

The comparison with Matrix-style evasion I think best captures the mindset you need to be in when thinking about Reflex saves. It's fantasy. Don't worry.

 

[Caliban]

Didn't it used to be 3ft diameter in previous editions?

3' radius, I think.

 

[CRGreathouse]

3' radius, I think.

Yeah, it was a 3' radius (6' diameter) in 3.0 as well as in 2E.

 

[cmanos]

from the SRD

The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns. It can be extinguished by any means that would put out a normal fire of its size. The surface of the sphere has a spongy, yielding consistency and so does not cause damage except by its flame. It cannot push aside unwilling creatures or batter down large obstacles. A flaming sphere winks out if it exceeds the spell’s range.

and on Reflex Saves

Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge area attacks. Apply your Dexterity modifier to your Reflex saving throws.

I don't see anything stating specifically that when you make a reflex save you move out of the square you are in. The spell specifically states "/...cannot push asife inwilling creatures...". Said unwilling creature still gets a reflex save and stays in the same spot.

 

[borc killer]

I hate this spell… we had sooo much play time wasted arguing about it.

This is our house rule: If you save you must move from the square during your next turn or take damage.

There are a few spells that already work like this and it seemed to us that this was what was intended… but who knows really…

Borc Killer

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the rules, you get an Reflex save even when sleeping or when you're unconscious (although you might be considered to have an effective Dex modifier of -5 in some situations), so there are nothing indeed saying you move physically.

I've never agreed with that answer in the FAQ.

The description of Evasion states that "As with a Reflex save for any creature, a creature needs room to move in order to use Evasion."

How much room is 'room to move'? Well, for a Medium creature, a 5' square is room to move. But a 2½' tunnel is not enough room to move - the example given.

Now, if you're paralyzed, how much room is 'room to move'? In a 2½' tunnel, you can't move, so 2½' isn't 'room to move'. In a 5' square, you can't move, so 5' isn't 'room to move'. In a 20x20 room, you can't move, so 20' isn't 'room to move'.

So while paralyzed, you can't use Evasion... as with a Reflex save for any creature.

When you're unconscious or asleep, you have an effective Dex of 0. With a Dex of 0, you are paralyzed. And while paralyzed, you can't use Evasion... as with a Reflex save for any creature.

If you could make a Reflex save, you'd take a -5. But since you can't move, you can't make the save anyway.

-Hyp.

 

[Jasperak]

It's also worth noting that, as written, the sphere only deals damage to someone when it enters their square and stops moving for the round.

If the sphere doesn't move in the next round, then as written, it doesn't deal damage to the person again, even if he remains in the same square.

-Hyp.

Does that mean you would force the caster to target the square next to the enemy and then move it into their square during the next round? I hate this spell!

Borc Killer>>Good call, that's what I ruled last night. Forced the troll to move 5 feet and within range of another PC. Imagine a dwarf tripping a troll. Too funny. Rule 0 saved the life of the party Cavalier.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Does that mean you would force the caster to target the square next to the enemy and then move it into their square during the next round?

Only if the enemy was completely surrounded by creatures in three dimensions.

Otherwise, you could move the sphere out of his square and back in in the same round. That's well under thirty feet!

-Hyp.