Flaming whip

[Storyteller01]

The flaming property certainly applies, since the hit is successful. Except that since the weapon dealing that fire damage is a whip, no damage is dealt to an armoured opponent.

-Hyp.

Sure there is... fire damage upon a successful strike (the ability doesn't say that the weapon has to damage a target, just strike it).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If there is a puddle of oil on the ground and a big haystack in front of me, and I hit them with a whip, I cannot in any way be said to have damaged either one despite my successful strikes.

If the whip is flaming, the oil will ignite, as would the hay, despite the fact that the whip-strike still did no damage to either target.

In fact, I daresay that I could ignite EITHER target while simply TOUCHING them with a flaming whip.

(This, of course, could give rise to a "new" tactic: if you know X creature is vulnerable to a particular kind of attack, you could eschew a regular attack and try for a touch attack in order to increase your chances of exposing X Creature to that power.)

Look at the mummy: DR 5/, but vulnerable to fire. A halfing with a +1 flaming dagger and 8STR fighting a mummy can't overcome the Mummy's DR with his weapon. And yet he can still hurt the sucker despite doing no damage because (tah-dah!) his weapon is a flaming weapon.

 

[Caliban]

I have to disagree with Hyp on this one. The flaming ability does damage independent of the weapons damage (if any).

 

[Raduin711]

The flaming property certainly applies, since the hit is successful. Except that since the weapon dealing that fire damage is a whip, no damage is dealt to an armoured opponent.

-Hyp.

Ok, chew on this one...

Monster has damage Reduction 20/fire. You have a flaming club. You hit, roll damage. Your club cannot do over 20 damage, so no matter what you roll on your bludgeoning damage roll "no damage is dealt". Since no damage is dealt, you can't apply the fire damage.

 

[Raduin711]

Ok, never mind... the description of Damage Reduction specifically allows for it.

 

[Raduin711]

Ok, gonna try some Errata Logic...

The flaming burst, icy burst, and shocking burst
weapon powers require a critical hit to trigger the burst.
What happens when you attack a foe that isn’t subject to
critical hits? Will the burst power work? A flaming burst,
icy burst, or shocking burst weapon also is a flaming, frost,
or shock weapon, respectively. What happens when the
burst power is triggered? Does the burst damage augment
or replace the damage from the energy power?

A burst power has its normal effect against foes that aren’t
subject to critical hits. If you strike such a foe and your attack
roll is good enough to threaten a critical hit, go ahead and roll
to confirm the critical. If you confirm the critical, the burst
power is activated, but the foe doesn’t take any extra weapon
damage....

From the DMG:

Flaming Burst: A flaming burst weapon functions as a flaming weapon that also explodes with flame upon striking a successful critical hit.

So the errata contradicts the description of the Magic Weapon Special Ability.

You can use the same logic provided here for the whip question. Which is: just because the weapon itself is unable to do damage, does not mean that any special abilities associated with that are also negated. The damage reduction rules also follow this same logic. I think this is a situation where the spirit of the rules should be followed, over a rather strict interpretation of the rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So the errata contradicts the description of the Magic Weapon Special Ability.

How so?

The critical hit was successful; it just happened that the creature was immune to it.

The extra damage from the flaming burst is not part of the critical hit (to which the creature is immune); it's something that happens along with the critical hit, whether the creature is immune to the critical hit itself or not.

The flaming damage from the flaming whip, however, is damage dealt by the whip, which is what a whip can't do against an armored opponent - deal damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The flaming damage from the flaming whip, however, is damage dealt by the whip, which is what a whip can't do against an armored opponent - deal damage.

Hyp, you are, as always, far smarter and more educated in these matters than I so no fancy rules questions from me just this:

Do you really think that is how the flaming in conjunction of the whip is suppose to work or do you think the rule as written is wrong?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Y'know, I have never seen a whip set someone on fire. I HAVE seen fires set people on fires, but never just a whip...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you really think that is how the flaming in conjunction of the whip is suppose to work or do you think the rule as written is wrong?

Hmm.

A dagger can damage someone in plate armour. It can find a way to get past the protection to reach the person underneath.

A whip can't. It's incapable of breaching that protection to reach the person.

Why should the flames of the whip hurt someone if the whip never actually gets to them?

-Hyp.