Flatfooted AC and Dex Penalty

[Caliban]

When a character is helpless, the Dexterity modifier specifically does apply : -5 for effective Dex of zero.

When a character is flat-footed, the consensus (and apparently rulings from designers) is that only a bonus is negated.

In neither of these cases does the modifier (as a general term) fail to apply. Helpless is a state more severe than simply "cannot react", and flat-footed less so.

Unless circumstances exist where neither helpless nor flat-footed apply, yet the character still "cannot react", then the page 8 reference is not simply "overly abbreviated", it is wrong.

-Hyp.

Your right, it's wrong. There are several errors in the PHB, many of which have been errata'd. This one hasn't been errata'd, but it's pretty obvious it's an erroneous statement, based on the later rules and examples listed in the PHB.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Is there a state between flat-footed and helpless - unable to react?

it'd be nice if there was a state called "unaware". this would probably be somewhat arbitrary, though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

it'd be nice if there was a state called "unaware". this would probably be somewhat arbitrary, though.

I don't know that it would have to be arbitrary.

In a non-surprise situation, where two groups begin a combat, until any given character takes his first action, he is "flat-footed aware".

In certain surprise situations - particularly attacks from concealment - a target would be "flat-footed unaware".

Now obviously, if the only difference between the two was that Dexterity penalties only apply to "flat-footed aware" characters, there would be mechanical advantage in yelling "Yoohoo!" before sneak-attacking someone. But I think it would be perfectly reasonable for anyone attacking a "flat-footed unaware" target to gain the +2 attack bonus normally granted to invisible attackers. In that case, yelling "Yoohoo!" would only be of benefit when attacking someone with a Dex of 5 or less.

This does, of course, wind up deep in House Rules country.

... but at least it satisfies page 8

-Hyp.